Daughter is demanding Poa for her Nan's Finances

Share your ideas about the practical side of caring.
Hi Everyone, this is quite long but I hope someone can advise me so I can avoid further arguments and a big fall out with my daughter.

Firstly at 48 I became my 89yr old Mum's carer about 6yrs ago after Dad passed away. I sold my house and moved in with her as she wanted to remain in the family home.

I was given POA alongside Dad before he passed away to assist with finances if needed. My Mums health over the past 2yrs has deteriorated and she's needed someone with her practically 24/7 since, I have been doing this alone and with virtually no help from others ( I have an older sister who does nothing at all apart from pop round for hand outs). I think I've had one weekend away in over a year with no nights out etc. My Mum suffers from severe arthritis and is partially sighted so needs to be kept a close eye on to prevent falls etc, plus to help with basic needs such as making hot drinks etc. She wasn't so bad for the first year or so after I moved in and she hasn't wanted carers coming in and out of her home or to go anywhere for for respite care, she knows her own mind and has been happy with the way things are. I've been happy for her to do this too as I believe she should stay in her own home as long as I and she are able to carry on with this arrangement.

I have access to Mums bank accounts after she gave the banks her permission for me to manage her accounts so I can go get what cash she wants every week, which has been about the same since before I had POA, I also pay the bills on her behalf and use my carers allowance etc to pay my share, I have nothing spare myself after everything is paid and can't even afford to get a cheap car to replace the one that was scrapped a few months ago. Mum pays for Taxis to her hospital appointments and transport to take her to church and a club one evening a week.

About 12 months ago I told Mum I intended some time in the future to move near my Daughter and Grandson. Anyway after speaking to social workers a few months ago, Mum decided she would like to go into a residential home near my daughters too and to sell the family home as it is now too big to manage. I was obviously more than happy with this as it would free me up to spend time with my daughter and grandson, also I could go back to work plus if anything did happen to me at least I'd know Mum wouldn't be at risk.

The problem though is since the house went on the market . Despite it being me to suggest the move all that time ago with which my daughter was happy about and said she couldn't wait, her attitude has changed and she even remarked a few weeks ago she didn't care if I moved up which knocked me a bit but thought I may have misunderstood. Despite this my daughter who can be quite pushy at times and likes to be in charge ( she gets that off her Dad ) has been very helpful by offering to visit some care homes for us, talk to the council about options in her area and also arranging an appointment for Citizens Advice. A few days ago for the Citizens Advice meeting she asked for 3 months of Mums statements, showing all her pensions etc, to see what help she could get, Mum gave her permission so I sent them to my Daughter.

I just wasn't prepared for what she came back with the following day. She started demanding to know why her Nan's been having money out every week and why so much (only £150 a week. The same as she has for many years) and what's she spending it on, you have to tell her to stop and leave it in the bank. I told her "your Nan has her own mind and it's her money, so up to her what she spends it on". Then came the even bigger shocker, saying well while she's down here and your up there it'll be best if I have POA and I can sort her money out. I obviously said no, as I know that's not what Mum would want. After my daughter carrying on and not accepting my answer she then threatens to travel up and talk to her Nan to find out what exactly she's been spending her money on and to talk her into giving her POA. After her pushing me even more to change my mind about the POA and not accepting the answer of No, she then asks why I'm being so difficult and trying to stop this happening. I just then said to her I have to go and ended the call. I spoke to Mum and explained what my daughter wanted to happen and she herself said it's her money and she likes spending it on bits and bobs and treating the Great Grandchildren etc and it's no good sitting in the bank. Plus she's said that she's not changing the POA or anything.

I just don't know what to do for the best now, I along with mum was really looking forward to moving away and having a new fresh start but now I'm not so sure, my daughters behaviour has really put me off going. I really don't want to be pressurised by anyone, I know my daughter loves us but why this sudden behaviour. I know Mum would be happy in a care home here too as she could still go to her club and church with her friends.

Sorry but this is the only place I could think of to let off steam and see if it was me just over reacting or does she have a right to have POA and I'm wrong for saying no? I just feel so confused, I just don't need this stress in my life.

Thanks for listening
Do NOT sell the house or give daughter POA, actually, it's NOT YOURS to give. In fact mum should be paying you for the care you are giving her, quite a lot of money. To give your daughter the statements was a breach of confidence, in future tell her it's none of her business, very, very firmly. Now you need to look to the future, where will you live when mum has died? Do you have any share of the house? If you don't have any savings, you might be entitled to ESA now, our helpline will help you.
Does mum have over £23,000 in savings?
Hi Bowlingbun,

Thank you for your reply, Daughters definitely won't be getting POA for her Nan.
I did ask Mum first about the statements, so thought as she had given her permission it would be fine and yes I will in future tell her to mind her own business.
Mum gives me enough for her shopping and towards some of the bills, I've always thought that the carers allowance and Income support was all I should be getting and Mum's AA was for her to spend on outside care, gardeners etc. Plus I'd get accused of all sorts for taking it off her, although what she gives me now I'm being made to feel I'm taking liberties and worthless.
The house is shared into 3 parts between myself, my useless sister and one share between my 3 children.
I have no savings at all so I'll look into ESA, I've never heard of it before though.
No mum doesn't have that much saved up she gave most of it away to her the grand kids and on her hobbies.
Well I was hoping to have got into rented accommodation by time Mum passes away and be working.
My daughter suggested I just get a room in a shared house and work till I can afford to rent a flat then eventually a house.
To be correct YOU cannot give your Daughter POA over her Gran's finances - only the "Donor" (her Gran) can do that.

Your Daughter could apply to the Court of Protection for the right to manage her Gran's finances as Attorney if she believes (and can prove) that (a) her Gran does not have mental capacity to manage her own affairs and (b) believes and can prove that you are abusing the POA that is already in existence. To do this would cost your daughter quite a lot in fees and there is no guarantee that after that outlay the Court of Protection would overturn the current POA, or even appoint her as deputy in your stead.

The .Gov website factsheet on Power of Attorney is here
https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney
and contains a lot of relevant information.
Hi Susieq,

Sorry I didn't put that the right way but it is Mum who has said that she won't be giving my daughter POA, she just wants me to have this.
Luckily Mum is very much with it mentally, it's just physical side of things in which she needs help.

If I had been abusing the POA I would definitely have always had a nice car sat on my driveway and a wad of money in my bank but I have neither, I don't even drink or go out. I've only ever had what Mum gives me and even on the times she's tried to give me a little extra like the odd £10 or £20 I've refused.
Gem
Has Mum already signed ownership of the house over to you, and your sister and the last third to the grandchildren?Or is that what she's put in her will?
I only ask because if it is still in her name and she goes into residential care, then it will have to be sold and to pay for the fees, and she still could last years.
If she did transfer ownership several years ago then it could well be safe, and if she survives over 7 years from the transfer it will be free of some tax, I think, I'm a bit tired tonight., sorry

Kr
MrsA
Hi MrsA,

No unfortunately not, it's only in her will.
I was looking into the deferred payment scheme but she needs to have been been in a residential home for 12 weeks before that would kick in.
Speaking purely financially (that is ignoring any emotional or practical issues) DO NOT let Mum sell her home and go into residential care (just yet anyway). Get Social Services to do a Needs assessment which should produce a care plan of carers coming in. You sell the idea to Mum, saying its to help you (which it is as well as her). At the same time you get a Carers assessment to see what help they can give you, especially some respite, being regular time off, or time to work.
It is time that Mums NEEDS take precedence over her WANTS. Just because she doesn't or didn't want carers coming in, time and things have changed. She used not to want residential home either, but that changed.

I say all this because with savings under £23000 she will be eligible for SS to pay for outside carers and they will disregard her house while she is still living there.

If she were to go into a residential Home now someone would have to pay fees which are about £50000 a year and either the house sold or a charge put over it so when she dies the Home claims its bit. Either of these options would render you not only homeless (either straightaway or when she passes) but with a decreased inheritance, if any is left at all.

In your kindness in rushing in to help Mum you have left yourself in a precarious position. What happened to the monies from the sale of your own property? What work can you get in your 50's that doesn't mind that you've had a 6-7 year gap?

For anyone reading this the benefit of hindsight is a wondrous thing. Gems mum should have transferred ownership of the house, but reserving the right to stay living it, well before the spectre of needing care loomed. She has done the right thing by spending savings and giving amounts to great grandchildren (assuming these are amounts that fit within inheritance tax rules) so that she comes under the threshold.
Yes, not having assets means she would be dependent on SS for care, but imho unless someone can easily afford to pay fees of £50000 a year, then any amounts that are over the threshold but well under a 'fortune' would have been better handed on as now they will just go to paying for the same care as SS would provide anyway.
Totally agree
Gemsy, can I pick up on the "Deferred Payment" Scheme.
This applies ONLY TO RESIDENTIAL CARE. You say, correctly, that it only kicks in after 12 weeks. However, did you know that for the first 12 weeks, the cost of residential care is subject to what they call a "Capital Disregard"? This means that the cost of care would be assessed by Social Services considering only mum's income. The difference between mum's income and the full cost of care would be paid for by Social Services.

However, if care was provided by Social Services AT HOME then the value of the property is always disregarded, contributions towards care are again assessed only on income.

So if you want to protect the value of the property, then it's much better financially for someone to have lots of care at home, arranged by Social Services, even 4 times a day with 2 carers sometimes; rather than to move into residential care.

However, there is also the "cost" of the emotional toll on you. Ultimately, it is your decision alone, whether or not you want to continue caring. No one can force you to care if you don't want to.

Sometimes it helps to think ahead. I know someone whose mum lived to be 104. By the time she died, he was too old to realise any of his own dreams. My mum was 87 when she died. By then I was widowed and disabled. My dreams have gone too.