Issues with House & paying for care

Share your ideas about the practical side of caring.
Jenny Lucas absolutely hit the nail on the head for me. Thank you Jenny.

In my situation my relative has a vested interest in the house Mum and I live in, Dad left it three ways.

If Mum passes away, or goes into a home, my relative inherits a large amount of money, I'll be left with money too, but not enough to actually put a roof over my head.. Its got to the point where I assume this is what my relative wants due to a complete refusal to offer any help or support to me.

Said relative turned up "incognito" as usual, claiming the entire family had been ill for the two weeks over Christmas. Strange that the entire family always gets ill when they have time of work.

As I said I AM bitter and just fed up of this nasty piece of work.
Stephen, if the house is owned by three people, is mum the third owner? If so, then if mum goes into residential care her share will have to go towards her fees! This is a really GOOD reason for the idle one to make sure mum stays at home as long as possible with all the support she needs. Residential fees at around £1,000 a week soon gobble up an inheritance!
Yes Mum owns a third, and I don't think idle is the right word, just wanting a relative dead or put into a home for personal financial gain, is there a word for that?

The relative will happily take the third no matter what effects it has on Mum and I. If it means Mum going into a home against her will and me being left without a roof over my head, as long as my relatives debts are paid and seems to be willing to stoop really low to get this:-(
Stephen, when your Dad left the house to your mum, you and your relative, how did he leave it? These are the possibilities:

(1) he and your mum owned the house jointly (as joint tenants), in which case the whole house should have transferred to your mother when your dad died and (as far as I know) the home cannot be left to the children by your Dad under the terms of joint tenancy
(2) the house was only in your Dad's name and he left it to the three of you as joint tenants
(3) the house was only in your Dads'as name and he left it to the three of you as tenants-in-common

(I'm being really simplistic in outlining the possibilities.)

The point is this - most couples own houses jointly, as joint tenants [legal term]. If your parents had a joint tenancy, then it doesn't matter what your Dad said in his will, as the house would be entirely owned by your mum.

If, on the other hand, the house was entirely in his name, and he left it to the three of you, are you joint tenants or tenants-in-common? If you're joint tenants, then each of you owns the whole house (don't ask - this is law, not arithmetic!) and there will be no limit on what the council can claim.

If, on the other hand, the three of you are tenants-in-common, then your shares are separate and each of you legally owns only a part of the house. In that case, the council will not be able to claim more than the value of your mum's share, after costs of sale of the house.

You can see why I'm raising this - the way your dad left the house can have a serious impact on what a council can recover from the sale of a house.
Very well put. Check the relevant documents - if you don't have a copy of the will readily available, who owns the house will be registered with the Land Registry - and then consult a lawyer. Don't delay.
Just to add to the housing discussion, when my mum needed to go into a home, the house was owned jointly by my mum and myself. The council wished to force a sale to pay for her care. I consulted a solicitor who said that the sale could not be forced as no-one would wish to buy half a house. I simplify what he actually said but that is what it amounted to. He wrote to the local authority to this effect and they backed down. I paid approximately £40 for the solicitor's letter which was well worth it. Another reason to take legal advice as each case is slightly different/
Thanks for the replies, but your not understanding the situation.

It wasn't my Dads will, but a generous act that gave all four family members a quarter control over five years ago.

We each own an equal quarter of the house, My relative mortgaged her quarter, which we all had to agree too. I stupidly agreed.

Since Dad passed last year, more and more the relative is pushing for Mum to pay for the quarter of the house she mortgaged, although Mum and I never saw a penny from the mortgage and the relative put down a deposit on a house, it has now become our debt. The house Mum and I live in is at risk while the relatives family home is fine.

Our solicitor put it bluntly, legally it is Mum and mine debt, but MORALLY it is the relatives debt. Since my relative seems to have no morals I fear the worse.

I hope that makes sense and shows why I am so angry, at a time when I'm caring 24/7 just to make Mum drink and eat.
I don't suppose you could go and burn down the house of the despicable relly, could you?

Just a thought.....
Stephen_16071 wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:26 am
Thanks for the replies, but your not understanding the situation. It wasn't my Dads will, but a generous act that gave all four family members a quarter control over five years ago.
It may be more complicated than you suspect.
INHERITANCE TAX
If the value of the house and everything else your Dad owned (including savings) came to more than ₤425,000 on the day he died, inheritance tax is due. The actual trigger for this would be the date of his death. If someone dies within 7 years of gifting something, it's still counted as theirs for tax purposes until then. The rate of tax reduces according to how many years passed between the giving of the gift and the death of the giver. You can read about it here:
https://www.gov.uk/inheritance-tax/passing-on-home
(you need to right click on the link to get it to open in a new tab)

CAPITAL GAINS TAX (CGT)
When someone is given a gift that they later sell, capital gains tax may be due. In your circumstances, if any CGT is due, that will be in addition to the inheritance tax. (This is because the inheritance tax is legally on your dad's estate, not on the recipients of his possessions. As we know, the reality is that it is the inheritors who pay.)
The upside is that, when the gift is part of a property, if the person lives in the property, they may not have to pay any CGT on their share of that property. Of course, this will not apply to your relative, and s/he will almost certainly have CGT to pay when the house is sold.
You can read about CGT on property here: https://www.gov.uk/capital-gains-tax
If you have further questions about this, I might be able answer some but not all. I'm retired now, and my knowledge is no longer current. (I'm an ex-tax inspector).

SHARE OF HOUSE
We each own an equal quarter of the house
That doesn't address the question of whether you are all joint tenants or tenants in common. As my previous post outlines, this determines how much of the house value can be taken by SS to repay nursing home costs. If you don't know which you are, I would urge you to find out, as this could put your disagreement with the relative in the shade. If you are joint tenants, and your mum is in care for years, you could end up with nothing when she dies.
Our solicitor put it bluntly, legally it is Mum and mine debt, but MORALLY it is the relatives debt.
I really feel for you. I once made a mistake with a house and it caused me immense turmoil. I've had a solicitor say "it would have been better if you hadn't done that". It's not a helpful comment.
This greedy relative appears to think that she can have her share twice, she's already had her share from the mortgage!
Just who is paying the mortgage?!