I have Power of Attorney for my mother (both financial and health and welfare) can I force her to go into a home

Share your ideas about the practical side of caring.
Hi Sue,

I had similar issues myself and would strongly advise on NOT revoking any Power of Attorney. It would not help your current situation and may in the long run cause you new problems.

In short, it depends on the thorny issue of "capacity". To force your mother to do something against her will, a GP would have to declare her incapable of making her own decisions. I failed to do this, despite the fact that my mum was introducing me to the GP as her nephew! However, the circumstances are different in that my mum had dementia.

So, you cannot force her into a home; however, you can, if you wish, refuse to care. In those circumstances, I would contact Social Services and say that you are absent on whatever dates, your mother requires care / respite and you need them to arrange it. It will then be up to Social Services and/or your mother to decide what happens next. In my own case, I told, not asked, my mum that the GP had insisted I had a rest and that her respite had been arranged. She was not at all happy, she almost refused to get into the taxi when I had a flight booked but in the end relented, stayed in respite and even was relatively content there.

I wish you luck, a very difficult situation, Anne x
My concern is whether having PoA for health and welfare places any legal obligation on one to continuing providing care in the way that the caree-with-capacity demands.

If one has PoA for health and welfare is one entitled to withdraw one's care?

If not - ie, if PoA for health and welfare legally obliges one to continuing caring in the way the caree-with-capacity demands, then the only way to stop providing that kind of care is to resign the PoA.......

It's fine if PoA for health and welfare gives one power....NOT if it imposes obligations on one!
No Jenny, I'm sure it only relates to money management, and the health and welfare bit only means that you have to be consulted, in the same way the patient would be, about treatment etc.

Actually, I think this would be a really good opportunity for Carers UK to let everyone here know exactly what the legal position is, because we've spent ages persuading carers to get their relatives to sign a POA! Maybe a link to the definitive answer?
Hi Sue,
I looked on the Age UK website which says the following but is written from the point of view of the person who is named, so in our cases the caree rather than the carer.

LPA for financial decisions

This can be used while someone still has mental capacity or you can state in your LPA application that you only want it to come into force if your lose capacity. An attorney (the person who makes decisions for you) can generally make decisions on things such as:

buying and selling property
paying the mortgage
investing money
paying bills
arranging repairs to property.
You can restrict the types of decision your attorney can make, or let them make all financial decisions on your behalf.

2. LPA for health and care decisions

This covers decisions about healthcare as well as personal welfare and can only be used if and when you lose mental capacity. An attorney can generally make decisions about things such as:

where you should live
your medical care
what you should eat
who you should have contact with
what kind of social activities you should take part in.
You can also give special permission for your attoreny to make decisions about life-saving treatment.

If you’re setting up an LPA for financial decisions, your attorney must keep accounts and make sure their money is kept separate from your money.

You can request regular details of how much is spent and how much income you have. This offers you an extra layer of protection. If you lose mental capacity, these details can be sent to your solicitor or a family member.

Hope this helps
Take care,
Tracy
Hiya
I may also depend on the wording of the POA. Were you involved in writing it? It may be that your powers are more curtailed than you think, especially if Mum still has capacity. For example she may have detailed that you can discuss her health issues with her GP but cannot choose where she is to live. There is a standard, straightforward outline for a POA but each person can customise it to their own preference at the time of signing, within certain parameters anyway.
However they do indeed have their uses and having had the forethought to get the POA signed and registered, it would, in my opinion, be a backward step to withdraw as her executor. Re-read it and see what it actually says before you decide.
KR
E.
To me, the good thing is, from what Tracy quotes, is that the person with Health and Welfare PoA can't be 'forced' to care in the way the caree wants to be cared for (ie, in this case, by Sue!), but neither can the PoA force the caree (while Sue's mum has capacity - as the GP says she does) to accept external carers.

Sue, I think, if I were in your position, that I would write to her GP, telling him you are going away on holiday, tha your mum is STILL refusing outside carers, and that it is up to him what he then does - eg, alert SS or whatever that there is potential an elderly woman 'at risk', with no immediate family to call on.

Then, tell your mum you are off on holiday, and ensure she has the contact details for the careworkers - and then pack your suitcase and head off and ENJOY your break!
PS - could you leave a set of keys for your mum's house with the GP? (If you have them!). Not sure if that's a good idea or not!
Hiya peeps

Am going cut and paste what I sent to SS in december.

'...Consequently, I do not think it is appropriate for me to try to arrange more care for next week. With my mother's back slowly healing, I can confirm that I will be away from xxxx from xxth to xxth December inclusive. Similarly, I do not intend to arrange telecare to be in place.

It is my suggestion that xxxx arrange for my mother to be taken out of her home into respite (or xxx via GP) for this period, through persuasion failing which through a removal order or similar compulsion.

Until such time as I deem fit, I am afraid I will be only undertake minimum requirements of medicating, preparing food and encouraging to eat, and assisting with incontinence laundry (bedding). I did inform the day centre my mother would not be attending today but I will not be doing so going forward and will not be attempting to rouse her or assist carers to rouse her. I have indicated I would be taking this action to my mother's social worker from new year but have decided to implement this from today. (As you know, I was extremely dissapointed with the outcome last week's ASP review meeting.)

I regret having to take these steps but I feel for sake my own health obliged to.'

This 'go-slow' has been far more effective in getting traction than threatening to complain about my mum's removal from vulnerable person's 'hitlist'.

I withdrew my 'work-to rule' on my return as everybody had been good boys and girls while was trying to sort my own life out (unsuccessfully as usual...) :pinch:

An approach worth trying i'd say.....