Carers threatening to withdraw care

[Lorraine_1906]

I have recently employed a care agency to help care for my father who has dementia. I was previously caring for him myself.

I am having issues with the care as they don’t seem to know how to care for a dementia patient, I.e they tell him his wife has passed which distressed him and also get angry if he refuses to wash etc. I have asked the agency manager of the company if the carers have training on dementia but when i enquire she threatens to withdraw care immediately. This is really distressing I just want the best care for my dad. Is she allow to threaten this purely because I’ve asked about the carers training? What are the grounds they can withdraw care with immediate effect?

[Chris From The Gulag]

Hi Lorraine.

I do not know the correct answer but ... the Money Advice Service web site does provide some guidance :

https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/e ... -your-care

Presumably , " Employing carers " through an agency ... the agency pay them, you pay the agency ... and not directly ?

An old thread which may also be able to assist you :

https://www.carersuk.org/forum/support- ... oyed-24973

Very quiet on the forum as I type ... it may well be a little while before someone else will be along.

[sunnydisposition]

Ideally, carers such come from an agency - who specifically deal with dementia/alzheimer.

Although this is not always possible - if not an agency must train staff appropriately.

https://www.cqc.org.uk/search/site/trai ... &mode=html

check the agency name on the above.

[MrsAverage]

Hj Lorraine
If the agency is paid privately, in other words NOT by social services, or NHS, then you have a right to employ whichever agency you wish and change to a better one BUT do check the contract to make sure you give the right notice else there may be additional charges. The contract should also be clear in what notice they have to give you before they withdraw care

If SS or NHS are funding the care then you complain to them about the care and get them to sort it out. Do not be robbed off with poor care.

[Lorraine_1906]

Thanks for all the advice
On the CQC website the agency has good on last report
We have full NHS funding for 1 carer paid yo us and we pay care agency direct
But the owner is diabolical
Anytime we have challenged her with regards to genuine concerns over care we are paying almost £2000
Weekly for
She has threatened to withdraw the care which she has actually done twice now leaving us high and dry as she knows dad needs 24hr care
Day carer and waking night carer which she insisted on but yet due to report sheets not being filled out at all we were only awarded 1 carer due to her incompetence 🤬
We actually have no contact with her care agency and she has not one single bad or low review to be found anywhere and we have searched the internet
She withdrew care immediately on Thursday just gone due to being challenged over carers in place having no dementia training whatsoever
We have repeatedly asked for proof of training which has fallen on deaf ears
Simple things like we pay for dads and both carers food
My dad is Irish and is a basic meat veg and spuds man
Issues we have had upto care being withdrawn
Are carers unable to cook for dad
Literally
Or serving up there choice of food that they r well able to make bring native home dishes
Origin being mainly African/Caribbean
Which we have witnessed dad saying I don’t want this I don’t like it
Like I said above he’s a simple food man always has been
The list goes on

[Chris From The Gulag]

Question ... not an answer.

CHC / NHS Continuing Healthcare.

Problem for the local CHC team to sort out ... not Lorraine ... as they provide the funding ???

Care agency ... funded by CHC ... in essence , CHC's agent ???

My curiosity as well as trying to assist Lorraine.

[Lorraine_1906]

Hi Chris

The funding is paid direct to us as a family and we in turn are paying agency
We get continuing health care from NHS and we also get an allowance from SS which is roughly £185 weekly
£900 weekly roughly from CHC for one full time carer at home but because agency insisted on a live in both day and night waking carer
Due to dad sundowning a lot
Apparently there regulations from agency state that if the live in carer has to get up physically more than twice in night for longer than 5mins then a waking night carer had to be placed
Hence why we are topping up care by nearly £800 weekly
Due to no care contract in place we feel we don’t have a leg to stand on legally

[Chris From The Gulag]

Top up fees under CHC / NHS Continuing healthcare ???

https://www.carersuk.org/forum/support- ... here-35998

( Hardly a day goes by when I do not post this link on multiple occasions ? )

TOP UP FEES ? : CHC / NHS CONTINUING HEALTHCARE ( NO SUCH THING !!!!!! )

Asked to pay " Top up " fees when receiving CHC or NHS Continuing Healthcare ?

In a word , DON'T !!!

Should You Be Asked To Pay an NHS Continuing Healthcare “Top-Up” ?

With a loved one living in a residential or nursing home will probably be familiar with the concept of top-up fees. These are third-party payments which bridge the gap between the cost of care home fees and the amount the local authority is willing to pay. They are so common that the charity Independent Age calls them a “secret subsidy” propping up the residential care system. So you may not be surprised if a social or healthcare professional asks you for an NHS Continuing Healthcare “top-up” to help meet the costs of care. But here are some things you should know before you agree.

There is no such thing as an NHS Continuing Healthcare “top-up”

While the legislation governing local authority social care expressly provides for “topping up” care fees (though only in specific circumstances), the NHS are not permitted to ask for an NHS Continuing Healthcare “top-up” for assessed needs. The only way you can “top up” an NHS Continuing Healthcare package is if you choose to pay for additional private services. These are over and above services to meet your full needs as set out in your care plan. They should be provided by different staff and preferably in a different setting, though there should be liaison where necessary to ensure continuity of care.

What do the rules on NHS Continuing Healthcare say about covering the cost of care ?

The National Framework says the funding package should be sufficient to meet all needs in the care plan. The CCG should base this on its knowledge of the local costs of services for those needs. It is also important that the models of support and the provider used are appropriate to the individual’s needs. And they should have the confidence of the person receiving the services.

So why is one in five recipients paying an NHS Continuing Healthcare top-up ?

Yes that’s right – one in five. According to Continuing to Care?, a major report released before Christmas by the Continuing Healthcare Alliance, almost 20% of those awarded NHS Continuing Healthcare said the funding did not cover the full costs of their care, resulting in them having to pay “top-up” fees. This fits in with what we are hearing from clients here at Just Caring Legal.

Could social workers be blurring the lines between local authority and NHS Continuing Healthcare “top-ups” ?

We are hearing of an increasing number of cases in which social workers are taking the main role in dealing with NHS Continuing Healthcare cases. Could this be blurring the lines between NHS and local authority funding? It can be difficult for those applying for NHS Continuing Healthcare to understand the different rules that apply to each, around areas such as top-up fees. It is right that social workers play a vital role in NHS Continuing Healthcare cases as part of a multi-disciplinary team of professionals assessing care needs. But once eligibility is established for NHS Continuing Healthcare, like all NHS care it is designed to be free at the point of use.

This is one of the founding principles of our NHS and its constitution: that it should provide a comprehensive service, available to all based on clinical need – not on the ability to pay.

Another link to explore ... CareToBeDifferent :

https://caretobedifferent.co.uk/are-you ... cessarily/

( Mainly deals with the care home scenario but ... enough references in there worth exploring. )

Left the colour code in ... shout if difficult to read !

Put me on a possible commission on this one ???

We have full NHS funding for 1 carer.

( Obvious deduction ... one carer for 24 / 7 ? ... back to the care plan ???

Under CHC , it is the care that's the issue here .. more care = more CHC funding ... if I've read the above correctly ? )

I'll let Lorraine digest that lot ... after all , she is the one shelling out ... not me !

Would be interesting to learn if there was a possible post code lottery in operation ???

[George_2008]

I have recently employed a care agency to help care for my father who has dementia. I was previously caring for him myself.

I am having issues with the care as they don’t seem to know how to care for a dementia patient, I.e they tell him his wife has passed which distressed him and also get angry if he refuses to wash etc. I have asked the agency manager of the company if the carers have training on dementia but when i enquire she threatens to withdraw care immediately. This is really distressing I just want the best care for my dad. Is she allow to threaten this purely because I’ve asked about the carers training? What are the grounds they can withdraw care with immediate effect?

I understood by law that they have a duty of care and cannot just withdraw. You also have the right to complain without being threatened.

George