Redundancy payment and Carer's allowance.

[GeorgeT]

Thanks all.

"the answer is that it does not count as earned income"

Scally, I thought that too, but, the man my wife spoke to at the DHSS said it did!.

"I'd say"

charles47, unfortunately its not what you or I say that counts..."There is nothing in the Carers Allowance regulations for this. Not a word."...Correct, so, its a case of interpretation and who makes that interpretation, the DHSS.

"ACAS"

bowlingbun, my experience of "ACAS" is the opposite to yours, once again it comes down to who you get to speak to on the other end of the phone. I think my wife will have to write a letter to the the DHSS explaining her situation, so, she has something in writing back from them.

It should also be pointed out that if she is forced to leave her job and lose her redundancy payment in order to keep her carer's allowance, she would then be classed as having made herself unemployed and this would effect any other benifits she may have been entitled to. A case of "damned if you do and damned if you don`t"!!!. As we all know its the way the system works or as we all know does`nt work!!!.

Thanks again.

[bowlingbun]

It's really important that she stays in post. The worst case scenario is that if the redundancy payments count as income for X weeks then she will only lose her CA for X weeks, it won't be lost forever. There will be inevitably have been a decision about this in the past, set by precedent, where there has been a legal judgement. About 15 years ago I had occasion to challenge CA payment for my son when he was home weekends, and was sent some case law by one of the agencies I was in touch with. I know from a friend who works for the DWP that they have large books of relevant caselaw etc. I just can't remember what the books were called or who sent the pages to me. This may sound too vague, however I am sure that this will ring a bell with another reader who will be able to give more specific information.

[GeorgeT]

"it won't be lost forever"

bowlingbun, thanks. Unfortunately, with the present government (the same as the last) the rules maybe changed when my wife makes a claim when her redundancy payment runs out ?. They may well at that point say something like...anyone making a claim can do no work!, or something just as silly (their good at doing things like that). If you think about it "The worst case scenario" is, why take the chance, she is going to be no worse off keeping her carer's allowance and losing her redundancy. A case of a bird in the hand is better then two in the bush ?. Although, I have to tell you, and this is just my opinion you understand, I think carer's allowance will come to an end at some point in the future/near future, they will say its unaffordable. Camerons BIG society will be expected to take up the shortfall, in otherwords charities and/or families. I fear the writing is on the wall.

[charles47]

GoergeT, the rules may be mad and the DWP may have its own version of reality but there are only a few legal options available to them. And although the CA regs don't cover this situation, the broader regulations which cover all benefits do:

Payments made under employment protection legislation
Introduction
15230 The effect of payments or awards made under employment protection legislation depends on
1. what type of payment is involved
2. when the payment was due to be made
3. whether the payment has actually been made.
Types of payments
15231 There are many different types of payments and awards including
1. statutory guarantee payments
2. guarantee payments under a collective agreement or wages order
3. remuneration while suspended from work on medical or maternity grounds
4. awards made by an Employment Tribunal or Employment Appeal Tribunal for unfair dismissal
5. interim relief pending determination of a claim for unfair dismissal
6. remuneration under a protective award
7. statutory redundancy payments
8. payments for certain time off work.
Vol 3 Amendment 31 October 2009
Treatment of payments
15232 Most payments under employment protection legislation should be treated as earnings1 (see DMG 15024 et seq). Take them into account in the normal way. 1 SS Ben (C of E) Regs, reg 9(1)
15233 Statutory redundancy payments1 are the exception to this general rule. They should be ignored. 1 reg 9(1)(b)

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/dmgch15.pdf

But bear in mind that any payments in lieu of notice or holiday pay would be treated as earnings in the usual way.

[Scally]

If you aren't actually working for the money, then you are free to put in your 35 hours caring: but money paid as "gardening leave" - i.e. the right to get paid your usual salary for three months even if your actual job has vanished is a bit of a grey area and is more like annual leave, sick leave or maternity leave, you are still being paid a wage: and its probably not worth contesting. Redundancy lump sum money is quite different - as are lottery winnings, capital gains from sales of stocks or the maturation of endowment policies, and legacies. They all count as unearned income, and Carers Allowance is not a means tested benefit.

[bowlingbun]

I've been wondering what questions arise from this situation.
1) If your wife is currently able to claim CA, when she's working then why shouldn't she receive it when she's not working?
2) Are the redundancy payments in lieu of notice? If so, calculated at a weekly rate, the point in (1) is relevant.
3) Are the redundancy payments compensation for loss of the job after a set length of service?
4) Does compensation count as earnings?
Note that I am just posing the questions which appear to be relevant. Having done so, it should be easy to get a definitive answer from the CA unit.
When my husband was made redundant some years ago, the redundancy payments were structured in such a way that it was not worth him working before a certain date, in effect, he had the summer off. My son had just left school and we went to a different steam rally each weekend throughout the summer!

[Scally]

Sorry bowlingbun, I had missed that point about low earnings: well you are quite right. Emphatically no, she will not lose her right to continue getting CA, under any circumstances!

[bowlingbun]

Thanks Scally,
I once had an Employment Law lecturer who taught me how to dissect cases to work out the facts of a case down to the bare bones, sometimes in less than 100 words, so I just applied the same principles when I was feeling too shattered to do anything else!

[GeorgeT]

Thanks all.

We are waiting for a reply from DHSS. I will let you all know the answer when we get a reply.

I see that the government are going to have a look at stopping people on DLA from being exampt from VAT, seems they are using it to buy expensive motor homes!!!. Well, that is what some tory MP got up and said in the House of Commons, he asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer to have look at VAT exemption for disabled people. Our very right wing media will no doubt run with this in the next few months, more demonisation of the disabled!!!!!!.

Thanks again.

[bowlingbun]

Personally, I've never seen a motorhome with a disabled person using it, but I know how difficult it was to go on holiday easily with my hyperactive son with LD. We had a second hand caravan with everything we needed. I can quite imagine that a wheelchair user, especially one with complex needs, would struggle to find suitable transport, or toilets, or bathrooms, or places to cater for complicated diets, complicated equipment or disabled friendly accommodation. How about a quick poll? How many of you have a beautiful motorhome VAT free because you are disabled? Please let me know how you could afford it! On the other hand, I've recently had my garage converted to a downstairs bedroom,essential for me to live comfortably in my own home. The bathroom was VAT free, but I still has to pay VAT on the rest of the conversion work. I've also bought a leg rest VAT free. This is just part of the government's idea that all disabled benefit claimants are scroungers. Where will it all end?