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New member - Page 2 - Carers UK Forum

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Warren, it's really important that your mum has a Needs Assessment from Social Services, and you have an entirely separate Carers Assessment.
Things have changed no end since your mum had bad experiences with Social Services, the Elderly Care Team will do absolutely everything to make sure mum is comfortable at home, make sure she has all the aids she needs to keep her safe. Their main aim is to keep people in their own homes as long as possible, so she has absolutely nothing to fear.
As mum couldn't manage without you, then she should be doing everything possible to help you care for her.
Whilst you are her son, you are also an adult and no one can force you to care. She has no right to boss you around, treating you like a child. Maybe you should find a suitable phrase and keep using it, like a stuck record player, something like "Mum, I'm not a child anymore, I'm a XX year old adult. I'm here because I want to help you."
Can I suggest that you ring or email the Carers UK helpline for a benefits check? I'm not sure that you and mum are getting all the benefits you are entitled to.
bowlingbun wrote:Warren, it's really important that your mum has a Needs Assessment from Social Services, and you have an entirely separate Carers Assessment.
Things have changed no end since your mum had bad experiences with Social Services, the Elderly Care Team will do absolutely everything to make sure mum is comfortable at home, make sure she has all the aids she needs to keep her safe. Their main aim is to keep people in their own homes as long as possible, so she has absolutely nothing to fear.
As mum couldn't manage without you, then she should be doing everything possible to help you care for her.
Whilst you are her son, you are also an adult and no one can force you to care. She has no right to boss you around, treating you like a child. Maybe you should find a suitable phrase and keep using it, like a stuck record player, something like "Mum, I'm not a child anymore, I'm a XX year old adult. I'm here because I want to help you."
Can I suggest that you ring or email the Carers UK helpline for a benefits check? I'm not sure that you and mum are getting all the benefits you are entitled to.
I have tried to get her to have a needs assessment but she said that she would leave if a social worker turned up (she has a motability car)
I was under the impression that for me to have a carers assessment she had to have a needs assessment?
I know that things have changed with social services (i used to work with them in a volunteer roll on the care side) but it's her mind and she is one stubborn person
Don't know if she is in the remit of the elderly care team she is in 50s
She is as safe as she can be I have had a few adaptations done in the house to help
(She wouldn't mind being down graded to a 2 bed bungalow but non available)
The only reason she needs to go down stairs when I am at work is to use the loo (she has a camode in her room for emergency or she can't get down there) always got drinks and snacks with her
She has times where she forgets how bad her conditions are and think's she can cope
I know that no one can force me to care but who else would?
I have dreams about leaving and setting up somewhere else but it's not in me
She thinks she has the right to boss me
1 I'm her son I should do what she wants
2 I'm here employee-carer she thinks she can boss me to get the full 35 hours I should do(not understanding all that i do do)
If we argue she is stubborn and says if you don't like it move out (I don't have any other place to go) and then she would be on her own wouldn't get help herself
As far as I know I get carer allowance and that's it I used to get income support but as they "over paid" they want £600 back even though I have been honest and told them that my wages would fluctuate a little, so I don't get that now
My mother gets ESA & DLA both components high rate
But i think it is all I can get £62pw to care 35 hours is wrong in my mind it's illegal as doesn't have the national minimum wage surly ? But the government can break the law ?
As iv said it's not all down to money but I do need to live
Raun_1703 wrote:Hello Waren, welcome to the forum. You are not alone with this situation, at some point the relations turns bit complex :?
Hi Raun_1703
Tnx
Complex yes I feel between a slave and her son and it ranges to
Warren, hi - I could be 'tough' and say that your mum has done you QUITE enough damage in your young life, if you had to be in care, to have NO say whatsoever in controlling you any longer thank you!

However....as you say, relationships are complex with parents who are themselves damaged (as I am charitable enough to think of your mum - ie, the reason you were taken into care as a child) (my own mum was 'damaged' by MH some of which was not her 'fault' but rooted in a difficult childhood that was imposed on her by her own mother....)(generation unto generation says the bible, and it's right, sigh!) (But see below too).....

I think my key message right now is this - it's one that applies to you, and to many many many of us caring for parents (in my case my 92 y/o MIL with advanced dementia, now in a care home)(not that she wants to be.....).

We must GIVE UP any idea that they will EVER 'agree' with us! They will never 'agree' to accepting outside care!

SO, that means WE must impose it on THEM. They will ALWAYS resist it!

We long for them to be 'reasonable' to think of someone other than themselves (if your mum TRULY loved you, or understood that, then she would INSTANTLY accept care-workers in to SPARE YOU).....but, it is one of the consequences of being damaged people (as your mum is) that they are VERY 'self-focussed'....they 'hurt so much' that they cannot (will not???????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!)(BIG question!) think about anyone else at all. It's always ME ME ME.......

So, I'm afraid, this is where YOU have to 'grow up' (ie, assume 'parenthood' over your own parent) and not 'ask permission' to get in care-workers, but to 'tell' her that is what is happening.

IF she kicks off, (as she will!)(because she will FIGHT HARD to get you 'back in line') then you have to be prepared to call her bluff - and walk out.

As others are telling you, you have NO duty of care whatsoever, you could walk out and never leave her again (not saying you will, obviously, but you COULD if you wanted).

Therefore you get to care for her on YOUR terms.

She's eating your life in her pain, BUT, just because you (a) love her and (b) feel sorry for her does NOT mean you should 'give in' to her 'damaged behaviour'. Just the opposite. She screwed up her life (for whatever reasons) but YOU do not have to.

I said earlier 'generation to generation' but if HER life was screwed up, and SHE screwed it up more, and then passed on that to you (eg, you were taken in to care), and now feel so responsible for her (and probably, yes, are glad to 'have her' again, since you lost her as a child), the ONE thing that you must do, and I say this from my own situation is for YOU to 'come good' in YOUR life. There is no point her having had a rubbish life if YOU now have a rubbish life too!

My bro and I have good happy lives because otherwise what was the point of all my mum's misery????!!!!!

I'm not saying abandon her - I'm saying 'Time to 'be the parent not the child' and TELL your mum the terms on which you will go on caring for her' - which HAS to be that you get in professionals to ease the burden on you, and free you up for YOUR life to which you are ENTITLED.

Her 'emotional pain' makes her selfish. This is not good for her. And it certainly isn't good for you.

It won't be easy - standing up to our parents is HARD to do, but for their sake as well as ours, it has to be done. Or she will drown you as she drowns herself.....

KINDEST wishes to you - Jenny
The only power your mum has over you is the power you let her have.
As for getting her full 35 hours worth out of you, that's so cruel. Make no mistake, you are being bullied.
So you go out without approval, what can she do?
I didn't realise that she's still in her 50's, in which case she would probably come under a disabilities team, each LA is organised differently so what happens in my area may be different in yours.
However, you can have a Carers Assessment without mum having one first.
I have a friend who cared for his mum until she died at 104. At what stage are you going to say enough is enough. I really don't think that mum deserves your loyalty, whilst you live there she will never ever accept outside care.
You can't change mum but you CAN and should change the way you react to her. Maybe find out if counselling is available in your area. The person doing the Carers Assessment would know.
jenny lucas wrote:Warren, hi - I could be 'tough' and say that your mum has done you QUITE enough damage in your young life, if you had to be in care, to have NO say whatsoever in controlling you any longer thank you!

However....as you say, relationships are complex with parents who are themselves damaged (as I am charitable enough to think of your mum - ie, the reason you were taken into care as a child) (my own mum was 'damaged' by MH some of which was not her 'fault' but rooted in a difficult childhood that was imposed on her by her own mother....)(generation unto generation says the bible, and it's right, sigh!) (But see below too).....

I think my key message right now is this - it's one that applies to you, and to many many many of us caring for parents (in my case my 92 y/o MIL with advanced dementia, now in a care home)(not that she wants to be.....).

We must GIVE UP any idea that they will EVER 'agree' with us! They will never 'agree' to accepting outside care!

SO, that means WE must impose it on THEM. They will ALWAYS resist it!

We long for them to be 'reasonable' to think of someone other than themselves (if your mum TRULY loved you, or understood that, then she would INSTANTLY accept care-workers in to SPARE YOU).....but, it is one of the consequences of being damaged people (as your mum is) that they are VERY 'self-focussed'....they 'hurt so much' that they cannot (will not???????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!)(BIG question!) think about anyone else at all. It's always ME ME ME.......

So, I'm afraid, this is where YOU have to 'grow up' (ie, assume 'parenthood' over your own parent) and not 'ask permission' to get in care-workers, but to 'tell' her that is what is happening.

IF she kicks off, (as she will!)(because she will FIGHT HARD to get you 'back in line') then you have to be prepared to call her bluff - and walk out.

As others are telling you, you have NO duty of care whatsoever, you could walk out and never leave her again (not saying you will, obviously, but you COULD if you wanted).

Therefore you get to care for her on YOUR terms.

She's eating your life in her pain, BUT, just because you (a) love her and (b) feel sorry for her does NOT mean you should 'give in' to her 'damaged behaviour'. Just the opposite. She screwed up her life (for whatever reasons) but YOU do not have to.

I said earlier 'generation to generation' but if HER life was screwed up, and SHE screwed it up more, and then passed on that to you (eg, you were taken in to care), and now feel so responsible for her (and probably, yes, are glad to 'have her' again, since you lost her as a child), the ONE thing that you must do, and I say this from my own situation is for YOU to 'come good' in YOUR life. There is no point her having had a rubbish life if YOU now have a rubbish life too!

My bro and I have good happy lives because otherwise what was the point of all my mum's misery????!!!!!

I'm not saying abandon her - I'm saying 'Time to 'be the parent not the child' and TELL your mum the terms on which you will go on caring for her' - which HAS to be that you get in professionals to ease the burden on you, and free you up for YOUR life to which you are ENTITLED.

Her 'emotional pain' makes her selfish. This is not good for her. And it certainly isn't good for you.

It won't be easy - standing up to our parents is HARD to do, but for their sake as well as ours, it has to be done. Or she will drown you as she drowns herself.....

KINDEST wishes to you - Jenny
Hi Jenny

tnx for you reply

to be perfectly honest i dont know exactly why i was in care to this day i know that my grand mother was abused in care and so was my mother and i had a bad experience in it too, so i dont want to put the blame directly on her
i do know that it wasn't my fault

when it comes down to saying that id leave if she doesn't get help she knows that i wont go and cant go
wont go because i care too much (if there is such a thing)
can't because i dont have anywhere to go
i think it would be better if i didn't live with her but that wont change any time soon

i try to stand up to her but we end up arguing and that doesn't help

yes she is very self self self
bowlingbun wrote:The only power your mum has over you is the power you let her have.
As for getting her full 35 hours worth out of you, that's so cruel. Make no mistake, you are being bullied.
So you go out without approval, what can she do?
I didn't realise that she's still in her 50's, in which case she would probably come under a disabilities team, each LA is organised differently so what happens in my area may be different in yours.
However, you can have a Carers Assessment without mum having one first.
I have a friend who cared for his mum until she died at 104. At what stage are you going to say enough is enough. I really don't think that mum deserves your loyalty, whilst you live there she will never ever accept outside care.
You can't change mum but you CAN and should change the way you react to her. Maybe find out if counselling is available in your area. The person doing the Carers Assessment would know.
i know you say the only power is what i give her but its the type of person she is (hard to explain)

and as for the full 35 hours yes if i dont do it or what she says i should then she says that she will end my cares allowance i know that part of that is doing 35 hours but surly that includes things like overnight care ? ect...
and she wants me to do things that a carer doesn't do thats when the your my son guilt comes in to play
the thing that gets me is her friends back her up knowing better

she wont stop me from going out just guilt trips and as i cant afford to go out too much its difficult
yes she would be in the remit of the disability's team

as i said in a previous reply i would like to move out just cant afford it and LA wont help (complicated)

and i have had counselling when i was younger (in care) but i haven't been able to get it since
will look into getting a carers assessment
Warren, just briefly before I log out ....no, of course being in care wasn't your fault! It might not have been your mum's fault either, but that isn't really the point. The point is YOU are entitled to a good life, and your mum should recognise that. If she refuses to, if it's me me me (!) then that also tells you that you don't have to feel bad about 'abandoning' her (not totally, just more than she wants you to).

Whatever her physical problems I'd say she clearly has considerable mental illness problems as well (or she wouldn't be the way she is!). If SHE won't seek help and resolution, that is no reason why YOU should not have counselling yourself - I would strongly recommend it, not just to help you 'make sense' of the chaos of your childhood and young adulthood, but so you can learn to 'manage' her neediness/demands, and also to become a full adult yourself (she's trying to keep you a 'biddable child' - all 'needy and controlling' parents do that!)

Don't worry about the arguments - she's trying to 'get you back in line' - you can simply say your piece and walk away. Remember, she'll never 'agree', but her agreement is really quite irrelevant you know! If she kicks off, walk away. You do NOT have to be 'controlled' by her behaviour. (Many people like her my mum included - would kick off if anyone dared to 'defy' them!).

It's quite interesting about her fear of SS etc - while she was a mother of a child I can understand that - the very real and reasonable fear of 'having your children taken away' is a dreadful 'weapon' in that respect.

But what on earth is she fearful of now? you're 27, you can do what you like! Or is she thinking SHE might be sectioned? is that her fear? otherwise what on earth can SS do to a 27 y/o grown up and a woman in her fifties??!!!

To be blunt, I suspect that she only trots that out to avoid having to accept 'careworkers' and to keep YOU in line.

Of course she's scared you'll desert her - but you have to keep telling her that the surest way for her to lose you is for her to keep you on too short a reign. Give you more 'you time' and you'll actually WANT to stay with her.

And yes, you CAN leave if you want - there is always a way, however hard and painful. It shouldn't have to come to that though, but you DO need to have a peer-to-peer relationship with her, which means you are an adult (and either she is a' child' or matures to 'adult' status herself hopefully).

That's why I think counselling would be so good for you! It's helped others here to resist the endless neediness/demandingness (and even bullying) of 'messed up parents' and I think you would benefit too.

All the best to you - your life is as important as your mother's. NEVER forget that.

One day you'll make a great dad, and you will NOT repeat the mistakes of your own parents! If one has 'lousy' parents, or just 'screwed up' parents, they serve as 'what not to be' examples, and the less like them you are the better (you can select their 'good points' and be like them!)

Kindest regards, Jenny
jenny lucas wrote:Warren, just briefly before I log out ....no, of course being in care wasn't your fault! It might not have been your mum's fault either, but that isn't really the point. The point is YOU are entitled to a good life, and your mum should recognise that. If she refuses to, if it's me me me (!) then that also tells you that you don't have to feel bad about 'abandoning' her (not totally, just more than she wants you to).

Whatever her physical problems I'd say she clearly has considerable mental illness problems as well (or she wouldn't be the way she is!). If SHE won't seek help and resolution, that is no reason why YOU should not have counselling yourself - I would strongly recommend it, not just to help you 'make sense' of the chaos of your childhood and young adulthood, but so you can learn to 'manage' her neediness/demands, and also to become a full adult yourself (she's trying to keep you a 'biddable child' - all 'needy and controlling' parents do that!)

Don't worry about the arguments - she's trying to 'get you back in line' - you can simply say your piece and walk away. Remember, she'll never 'agree', but her agreement is really quite irrelevant you know! If she kicks off, walk away. You do NOT have to be 'controlled' by her behaviour. (Many people like her my mum included - would kick off if anyone dared to 'defy' them!).

It's quite interesting about her fear of SS etc - while she was a mother of a child I can understand that - the very real and reasonable fear of 'having your children taken away' is a dreadful 'weapon' in that respect.

But what on earth is she fearful of now? you're 27, you can do what you like! Or is she thinking SHE might be sectioned? is that her fear? otherwise what on earth can SS do to a 27 y/o grown up and a woman in her fifties??!!!

To be blunt, I suspect that she only trots that out to avoid having to accept 'careworkers' and to keep YOU in line.

Of course she's scared you'll desert her - but you have to keep telling her that the surest way for her to lose you is for her to keep you on too short a reign. Give you more 'you time' and you'll actually WANT to stay with her.

And yes, you CAN leave if you want - there is always a way, however hard and painful. It shouldn't have to come to that though, but you DO need to have a peer-to-peer relationship with her, which means you are an adult (and either she is a' child' or matures to 'adult' status herself hopefully).

That's why I think counselling would be so good for you! It's helped others here to resist the endless neediness/demandingness (and even bullying) of 'messed up parents' and I think you would benefit too.

All the best to you - your life is as important as your mother's. NEVER forget that.

One day you'll make a great dad, and you will NOT repeat the mistakes of your own parents! If one has 'lousy' parents, or just 'screwed up' parents, they serve as 'what not to be' examples, and the less like them you are the better (you can select their 'good points' and be like them!)

Kindest regards, Jenny
when it comes to SS she is under the impression they want to ruin her life - she doesn't see it like the rest of us
i do think she needs to have some type of counselling but she doesn't and i cant force her i think she needs to talk about her pass and given tools to move on

as i said in other reply's i wouldn't mind having counselling but its hard to get and then who would look after her ?

she does like to think she is right all the time even if she is wrong so arguments are always a win in her mind
its like banging my head against a wall

i know she has issues that she doesn't want to face but its ruining both our lives and she doesn't see that

thank you Jenny i do know that my life is important too
and i really hope and want to be a great dad that is a dream of mine just dont see it happening soon
no social life
Warren, your post really moved me. Please believe your life and happiness is just as important as your Mum's. Please try and claw back some time for yourself to find a social life and a route to happiness.

I was thinking about your situation and what if you were less reliant on carers allowance? What if you ditched that and increased your hours in your job? Or got a new job. Even if you just earned minimum wage you could not work too many hours and be better off? More hours at work would mean she would have to either manage alone or accept more help? And would stop her holding the carers allowance against you. You are under no obligation to care for her full time. If you have job you have a route to your own life. I appreciate that the psychological pressures your Mum puts on you will not make that easy. But why not go to your Gp and get on a waiting list for some counselling to help YOU cope with this situation? If you get yourself a carers assessment perhaps social services could help you access this too. I am sure there will be a waiting list, but would be worth the wait in the long run?

Anyway, good luck to you as it sounds like a very difficult situation for you. And I really hope you are able build a life for yourself.