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Could we be made homeless by sibling - Carers UK Forum

Could we be made homeless by sibling

Tell us a bit about yourself here.
Been caring for dad with dementia. Had SS needs and my care assessment.
He's got much worse and needs 24/7 care. So stress and depressed been ill. On antidepressants.
Got new ft job now and partner and I cannot care anymore. Refuse to due to ill health.
Problem my sibling has PoA, we live in my dads house and cannot move out straightaway.
Dad with sibling at mo for summer. We said think he needs residential care. We need time to work and save without demands of care until his house can be sold.
Sister says he HAS to come back, so we are being forced to look after him. Can I refuse and call SS? Have had agreement with dad for years to look after house and pay bills as he used to live in Spain.
Should I get legal advice? My relationship with sister broken down as she refuses to care for him, even though she has her own home with space for carers! Please advise as he's due back bank holiday Monday...URGENT help. Dee :shock: :mad:
Hi Diane,
I am replying as I'm online but I hope others will be here with more advice shortly. I can see how difficult your position is. You have no legal duty to care for your father. You can refuse and call SS. In addition, your moving out would do no one any good. I have no idea, since you're living in your dad's house, whether you can do anything as fast as you need, though. I mean, you need to call SS and see how they respond, and theoretically in the last instance you could change the locks and refuse to let him in, but I think you need support from SS in the present situation. It is good that you have had the assessments.

It doesn't seem to me that getting legal advice would help you, and it would probably not be fast.

What is your sister likely to do if you stop caring 24/7? You say she says he has to come back, but actually that should include residential care near you. Is she saying you can't stay in the house otherwise? How far away does she live? In what way has your relationship broken down?

Sorry I can't give more concrete help, but I know others can, although it's the weekend. Have you looked at local care homes suitable for your father?
My sister lives about 4 hours away.
She is adamant he needs to be in the house. I've said 3 times he needs residential care. She's already called SS and told them dad needs care at home.
But regardless it won't be 24/7 and we would still be forced to care at night etc. and it's too stressful as he is so demanding, can't do anything for himself anymore.
Don't want to move but feel only option as she is so stubborn. But need to save up before we can rent somewhere as only just got a job.
I'm looking into care homes but she has PoA so could take him out. So upsetting as don't feel any support from my family, only my partners. And his mum is caring for his dad with Alzheimer's. Feel like my sister is being really selfish
I wouldn't know what the legal situation is in terms of whether you are entitled to continue to stay in your father's house, but 'these days' isn't it usually the case that being a 'sitting tenant' (so to speak!) gives one quite a lot of leeway. It's quite hard to evict people who are in your property! ('Adverse possession' I think the term is - Greta will know!)

I suppose from your sister's POV, she may be feeling 'Hang on, there's my sister living in dad's house, yet won't have him back there, won't look after him themselves, but they want to go on living in it thank you very much?! Meanwhile I have to have dad, look after him 24x7, and in my own house!' ????

The key issue to settle is 'What happens now to dad?' If he now needs care 24x7, and you are not prepared to do so (and, indeed, who could blame you?), and anyway can't because you're now working full time, and your sister is likewise not prepared to care for him 24x7, whether in her house or his, then really the only two options for your father is to have either a single live in carer/relays of carers, or to move into residential care.

Whichever happens, presumably, if he owns a house, then SS will expect him to use the value of it to fund his care (whether that's with a live in carer or in a care home), until the time comes when his assets go below the crucial £23k limit at which SS start to take over.

In terms of 'evicting' you, in order to free up the house to be sold, I believe, from reading on this forum, that this may not have to happen immediately, from the point of view of SS. They can, effectively 'loan' the money to your father to pay for his 24x7 care, and then claim it back after his death, having put a charge on the house, which is then sold to pay that off (and any residue goes to his heirs). But do check this out!

If your dad is being 'delivered back to his house' tomorrow, by your sister, and you and your partner are going to be out all day at work, so will not be there to care, even for a short while, then really I would say your only options are to hire in some carers privately (maybe even using your own personal money for the time being?)(you 'should' be able to reclaim this from your dad - presumably via your sister with PoA for him?) (since you have no leagal duty of care for your dad, and are not obliged to pay for any of his care) care agency, or else trying to find some urgent respite care where your dad can stay while you sort out his long-term care.

In terms of any 'right to live' in your father's house, it might be that your position would be strengthened legally is you started to pay some rent to your dad - that might, possibly, generate some kind of 'virtual lease'??? If, previously, you were living there 'free', while he was in Spain, or, more recently, your 'rent' was the care you provided to him as 'live-in family carers', then if you're not going to be his carers any more, then it would not be unreasonable for you to pay some rent for the accommodation you are getting! Would that 'mollify' your sister at all? (I can, from outside, see her point that if you don't care for your dad, but still get to live in his house 'rent free' she could get miffed???!)

If you and your partner do intend to move into your own accommodation before too long, when your personal finances permit, then maybe you could agree a short term let with your sister (as your dad's PoA), say three months, or whatever you and your partner require to find alternative accommodation, and save for a deposit, moving expenses, whatever whatever.

Would it be fair to say that your sister sees no good reason why her father should be 'put in a home' leaving you and your partner 'free use' of his house, contributing nothing?? Is that what her objection is?

Overall, I do understand how things have got so fraught. My friend cares for her elderly dad with dementia, who lives with her. She used to 'swap' him with her sister, but the sister decided it was all too much for her, and refused to have him (except extremely occasionally!). The sister thinks the dad should be in a home, my friend wants to conserve his estate by saving on care home fees, and also thinks he's happier living 'at home' with her. She'd like her sister to have him more, but the sister doesn't want to. So it's a kind of unhappy stalemate.

In all of this for your situation, what would your dad prefer? Do I take it that 'ideally' for him, he'd just like to live 'at home' with you his daughter looking after him? Sadly, that may be hard for him to understand why it's so 'burdensome' for you to do so (and I don't think many people here would disagree, desperately sad though it is when parents' care needs get so crushing!)

Hoping it all gets sorted our amicably in the end!
Hi Diane
What a horrible situation for you.
In my opinion your sister is not acting in your father's best interests.
You can contact the office of public guardianship and explain.
0300 456 0300.
Others on the forum will be able to advice more than I can but there is help I'm sure.
Take care
Just read your previous post which went up before mine. Can you phone his GP/SS and tell them that he needs overnight care which you CANNOT provide?

And then 'don't provide it'??

It's hard, I know, when you are actually 'in the house', but if you behaved as though your dad were truly alone, having made that CRYSTAL CLEAR to the GP/SS - put it in writing that you NO LONGER play ANY part in his care! - then I would think it might become a 'safe-guarding' issue.

Does your sister expect you to provide night-time care, as part of your 'rent' arrangement? Is the crux of this as I suspect that you are living 'free' in your dad's house, yet 'refuse' to care for him, or is that not the case? I take it that your sister just wants her dad to be 'at home' because he's happier there? Or is she trying not to 'waste' his estate on care home fees?

if the situation really is untenable for you, I wonder if 'bank of mum and dad' from your partner might possibly loan you enough money for you to move out and rent immediately, and you pay them back out of your new salary? (Is your partner working full time too?). If you are not in your father's house, then your sister will have to bite the bullet on residential care (or, as I say, live in care).
DO NOT MOVE OUT!!!
Take tomorrow off and get legal advice - employers have a duty to allow carers time off under the Equality Act. Ring Shelter. Ring Social Services, explain that dad will need "Emergency Respite Care" if he comes back tomorrow. Change the locks. Ring the GP and ask for an NHS Continuing Healthcare Assessment. I'm sure you have rights as a tenant, especially in view of what happened when dad was in Spain. I'm pretty sure the value of the house can't be taken into consideration as that would make you homeless. Email the Carers UK helpline first thing tomorrow and head it urgent. It's just an awful shame you didn't find our forum before.
Can I ask what care dad actually needs now? Does he have over £23,000 in savings? If so, look at the Care Quality Commission website for details of dementia homes.
I hope it is sorted amicably too but I'm afraid my sister will disagree as she is stubborn.
I feel like I've lost my big sis but I have to think of my partner and my mental and physical health so I may have to make decisions she doesn't agree with. My dad needs dementia care and support now.
She has PoW but is not doing what is in dad's best interests.
Hopefully we will get things sorted soon. Thanks for all the advice. Please keep it coming. :D
The "bottom line" is that the only power she has over you is the power you let her have. If she agrees that he needs 24/7 care, then SHE should be the one to sort out residential care, as she is the one with the POA!!! Clearly she can't cope in a bigger property, so you are even less able to cope in a smaller property.
In a way to avoid falling out together, it might be worth pointing out that it is in BOTH your interests for you to remain in the property and dad to move into residential care. This should (and you need to check with CUK's helpline) mean that the property cannot be sold as that would make you homeless, and therefore it will protect her inheritance, and yours!!
Now she has found she can't cope with dad either, and he really does need 24/7 care, ask HER to arrange for the GP up there to ask for an urgent NHS Continuing Healthcare Checklist Assessment - if dad is entitled then all his care will be funded by the NHS, again, protecting inheritance.
Keep stressing to her that she has POA and it is her responsibility. Moving him back to your place without any 24/7 care arranged is totally irresponsible, and if anything happened to him, then she might be liable to a claim for negligence. (Now I'm not sure whether this would actually hold any water legally, but it might make her think twice!)
PS From now on, insist in "talking" via email so that you have proof of what you have said, and more importantly, what she has said. Say that you want to correspond via email so that you can keep your partner fully informed when he comes back from work, or any better excuse you can come up with. It's also a good idea to use the same tactic for Social Services, just ask them for the email address for the "elderly frail team".