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PIP refusal... then PIP SUCCESS - Page 4 - Carers UK Forum

PIP refusal... then PIP SUCCESS

All about money
73 posts
Petal wrote:
caravanj wrote:
Petal wrote:
Hello Petal,

My wife's PIP claim consisted of:
1: The claim form.
2: Supporting evidence from her GP.
3: A home visit from an ATOS assessor.
4: The DWP decision.

The claim form had to paint a picture about my wife's day-to-day living in sufficient detail that the reader would have that picture in their head.

The GP merely confirmed that she had the medical conditions listed in the claim form &, presumably, express an opinion about the general effects of these conditions.

What her GP can't do is to give a categoric statement about precisely how she's affected since he doesn't live with us & doesn't see what care she needs as everyone's needs may be different even with the same condition.

The only person who can do that is me since PIP is awarded on the basis of care need & not medical condition so yes, the onus did fall on me to provide ASTOS & the DWP with sufficient evidence to support her PIP claim.
Hi caravanj it would appear by your 1,2,3,4 list your wife's case was dealt with very well and sucessfully, I have however been with my OH through ever stage so far, and just to say from when we put in his claim in October last year till January this year his condition has deteriated, so is that our fault that the decision makers have not taken this into account? I think not!
As for Atos it's money for old rope.... they stick to a one script fits all and sorry it does not, I may read as being defensive yes I am, as these people do not have the knowledge or experience of dementia in early stages, and why should we have to pay for medical reports to explain OH changes in cognition and memory when DWP should request details from GP? now someone here has said the onese is on me to give body of proof of how much OH needs help... ok so if i write a diary of everything would that be taken into account? who knows? as Atos sure did not ask what I do in a care copacity above and beyond my normal 24/7 role as his wife!
Sorry for the rant but it is about time some HP listen to the carers! And the DWP/PIP decision makers make claiming less stressful, making it such a long drawn out affair may cause so many just to give up their claim, well not in our house.
Hello Petal,

I agree that my wife's claim did go smoothly but that was only because I invested many, many, many hours over the best part of a month researching all the DWP & ATOS literature about PIP, the descriptors, the points system, the assessment guidlines etc. before I even started to complete the PIP form.

I also spoke, by telephone, to someone who had an extensive knowledge of DLA / PIP appeals to check whether they thought I'd missed anything or if I could have worded it better. They also reinforced the message about forgetting about the medical conditon & concentrating on the effects of the medical condition on my wife's daily life.

At the same time I asked the DWP to make me my wife's appointee & a DWP officer was sent to interview both my wife & myself, in our home, to determine whether she needed an appointee which they agreed she did & I was duly appointed.

This meant that, apart from the DWP officially recognising that my wife was unable to conduct her PIP claim without considerable assistance & in itself was an indication that she had problems, I could deal with all the paperwork & had a legal right to speak on her behalf during the ATOS assessment, which I have say was conducted extremely thoroughly & professionally, but had I not got the appointee status the ATOS assessor would have had to rely on what my wife said & the PIP assessment could have been very different.

I can't stress enough that it's all about meticulous preparation & for carees with impaired cognitive issues, asking the DWP to grant you appointee status so that you can then, at the ATOS assessment / Tribunal etc, legally speak on behalf of your caree as opposed to just chucking in your two pennyworth in an unofficial capacity so to speak.
thanks for that, I am now OH's appointee and POA, It did not occur to me at the time of Atos assessment that I would speak up on his behalf as every question was directed at him, I just accompanied him. Perhaps that was my inexperience of being a carer as really it is only recently that I see myself as one. To me I just take care of my husband! but I now see my responsibility is so much more.
So do you think it is worth me writing and sending a submission to tribunal of the day to day things I help hubby with to hilight mis scored discriptors in atos assessment? would it make a difference?
Petal wrote:thanks for that, I am now OH's appointee and POA, It did not occur to me at the time of Atos assessment that I would speak up on his behalf as every question was directed at him, I just accompanied him. Perhaps that was my inexperience of being a carer as really it is only recently that I see myself as one. To me I just take care of my husband! but I now see my responsibility is so much more.
So do you think it is worth me writing and sending a submission to tribunal of the day to day things I help hubby with to hilight mis scored discriptors in atos assessment? would it make a difference?
It took others to tell me we should claim DLA for my wife so I know where you're coming from.

Definitely, get the list of descriptors & check it against the ATOS assessment scores & produce a list of where you can show that they're wrong together with your assessment & reasoning.

Remember that every section of the PIP assessment has several descriptors & the DWP guidlines state that if more than one descriptor applies then the descriptor with the highest score is the one that must be used.

E.g. If your husband needs prompting & accompanying to go out to prevent him getting stressed then that's 4 points.

If he can't follow an unfamiliar route unaided then that's 10 points so the score for that activity would be 10 points, not 4 points. (And it's by bus & train, not by private car or taxi).

Also he must be able to undertake any task reliably, repeatedly & in a timely manner so it's no good ATOS saying he can make a cup of tea it it takes him 10 minutes & he spills the first one etc.
ATOS made an enormous mess of the assessment on me when I was applying for DLA, and my requests for reconsideration didn't change anything. With a tribunal brewing, I asked for a copy of the doctor's form and went through it armed with a highlighter pen. (Good idea to copy it first so you have a clean original, and then highlight the copy. Check absolutely everything. Write out (I did it in italics) what the doctor/assessor said. Then leave a line and write down what is wrong, inaccurate, misleading.

After I did this, I sent it all back and spoke to someone in the department (had to be extremely persistent as the people who answer the phone are extremely reluctant to put you through). I said that the form was so inaccurate it was nonsense. The person I spoke to had enough experience and authority and agreed, and then granted me the benefit without further delay. Obviously a different benefit, but the basic principles remain the same. Good luck.
bowlingbun wrote:ATOS made an enormous mess of the assessment on me when I was applying for DLA, and my requests for reconsideration didn't change anything. With a tribunal brewing, I asked for a copy of the doctor's form and went through it armed with a highlighter pen. (Good idea to copy it first so you have a clean original, and then highlight the copy. Check absolutely everything. Write out (I did it in italics) what the doctor/assessor said. Then leave a line and write down what is wrong, inaccurate, misleading.

After I did this, I sent it all back and spoke to someone in the department (had to be extremely persistent as the people who answer the phone are extremely reluctant to put you through). I said that the form was so inaccurate it was nonsense. The person I spoke to had enough experience and authority and agreed, and then granted me the benefit without further delay. Obviously a different benefit, but the basic principles remain the same. Good luck.
The problem with the PIP descriptors system is that they're open to a fairly wide interpretation between different people, especially when assessing a person with cognitive impairment.

I feel that some of my wife's descriptors were wrong & she should have had a higher score but as she was awarded enhanced rate Daily Living there would be no point in asking for a reconsideration as it wouldn't affect her award.

E.g. My wife was assessed as being able to express & understand verbal communication unaided & to some extent she can but not enough to be able to function without important things being explained repeatedly to her.

We've had cable TV for nearly a year now & I still have to explain why she sometimes gets asked for a viewing PIN code & why some channels in the guide are highlighted, however that doesn't really matter but when we went to see a solicitor to sort out wills etc., the solicitor said he wasn't sure if she was able to give him informed instructions because she just couldn't grasp what he was asking her.

Also when she's talking to people in casual conversation they don't know a lot of it's wrong.
Yep have done the hilight incorrect parts on assessment report, and used it as evidence for appeal, the DWP have 28 days to respond and apparently have to send me a copy of any paperwork they have when they made their decision refusal. It's just the time it is taking, I keep thinking erhaps with my copy of incorrect discriptors in front of them they may change their decision, which apparently they can do before it goes to tribunal. What are the chances of that though? slim I fear.
I am urged on by advice and othersexperiences here as i don't feel like we are the only ones going through this.
Just popped in to catch up where you are at Petal.

I am glad you have taken the bull by the horns and will take this all the way. Sadly not everyone has such fortitude and the support of the forum.

Keep up the good work.xx
I don't know the current figures but a while ago ove 50% of appeals were successful. This is why DWP are slow to respond, they are snowed under with appeal paperwork!!!
Petal wrote:Yep have done the hilight incorrect parts on assessment report, and used it as evidence for appeal, the DWP have 28 days to respond and apparently have to send me a copy of any paperwork they have when they made their decision refusal. It's just the time it is taking, I keep thinking erhaps with my copy of incorrect discriptors in front of them they may change their decision, which apparently they can do before it goes to tribunal. What are the chances of that though? slim I fear.
I am urged on by advice and othersexperiences here as i don't feel like we are the only ones going through this.
Don't forget that now you're an appointee the Tribunal have to put a lot of weight on your input & if your husband tends to make out he's better than he is then you can correct or downright contradict him if need be.

If your paperwork challenging the decision is very compelling then the DWP may well change their decision as they'll be fully aware that a tribunal is more than likely to find in your favour.

I've had a quick read about Lewy bodies & the symptoms would suggest that your husband would be unable to perform many of the Daily Living tasks:
1: reliably & safely
2: repeatedly
3: in an acceptable timeframe.
Due to the fact that his perception & awareness will vary throughout the day

So going back to your assessment saying he could cook a simple meal he'd have to be able to do it in no more than twice the time in which a non-disabled person could do it & not be at any risk of hurting himself whilst he was doing it. If he takes 20 minutes to prepare something that you could do in 5 minutes then he is not, under the DWP rules, able to perform that task.

Again, he may well be able to plan a route but could he follow the route by public transport unaided & meeting the criteria above.

I'm starting to get angry on your behalf.

Is there such a thing a s 'anger by proxy'? Lol !!
caravanj :lol: :lol: :lol:proxy anger hehe, the points you have made are valid to my husbands case, I am really hoping DWP do look at it again without tribunal but think I am ready for the fray,
And thankyou everyone and I will keep you posted, however long it takes.
73 posts