On the lunchtime news

[Robinredbreast]

A man, Kelvin, who has had ( I think I heard correctly ) 4 heart attcks, 2 strokes, Cardiovascular disease, problem with using his hands, sores on his hands,a lower leg amputation and the government say he is fit enough for help to get back into work. His wife is his full time carer, I think they are in their 30's and Kelvin used to work before all this happenend. His wife has said she would take him to see the proper people or departments or they could visit him at home to actually see what his condition is like and the answer is no.

Made me feel sick inside when I heard that, absolutely disgraceful

RRB

[bowlingbun]

I saw the tail end of that report, and the quote from the govt. about helping people back to work who could work, and giving "unconditional" support to those who needed it. If the man featured didn't qualify for "unconditional" support then very few will!!!

[ladybird]

Hi RRB

I have come to a conclusion about all this. Absolutely no disrespect to you or anybody that says it is all disgraceful, disgusting etc and I understand the need to vent and get the anger and despair off our chests, I was in the same position with my caree.

But all the disgust and anger in the world is getting us nowhere, nor will it. They are going to push these changes through regardless so the only way forward that I can see is to go ahead and do what they say. And yes, I understand how bloody impossible that might be.

If they say a caree is capable, take them to the jobcentre, sit back and say nothing. I don't agree with all this silly talk about leaving our carees and strike action because it is just that - talk. If we were willing to do that, we would not be carers.

Let the so-called advisors deal with them one on one. Let them decide how a non ambulant person who is sitting in front of them can get to work. Let them answer and explain how they will provide a safe environment for someone with learning difficulties who can behave in an odd manner, or who can self harm.
Let them find a company that will take on someone who needs medication administered, or behaves in an anti-social way.
How someone who is physically or mentally incapable of coping with a workplace is actually physically going to get there, stay there, do the work required and get home afterwards. Let them arrange it. They are there to be supportive so that is what they need to do..lets see how they like organising all the care for a change.

It cannot be done but they say it can. Let them prove it or try to..their whole new system will fall apart.

[crocus]

Hi Ladybird.
I know exactly where you are coming from BUT
As you know, hubby has lost his ESA and been put in the work group. I did exactly as you suggested - took him to the job centre where someone interviewed him. He had several absence attacks infront of the interviewer and was obviously unwell. The interviewer admitted that there was no work he could do and that there was no point in going on any courses.
However, this doesnt alter the fact that he is still in the work group and until we successfully appeal he will remain there. After 12 months, unless he gets a paid job (I know, I know), then he will loose all benefits as I am working.
The person making the decision that he can work is not the same as the person in the job centre who knows that there are no jobs he can do. And the person making that decision will never actually meet him and doesnt care - so long as they meet the government target.

I really dont know what the answer is.

[Robinredbreast]

Hi RRB

I have come to a conclusion about all this. Absolutely no disrespect to you or anybody that says it is all disgraceful, disgusting etc and I understand the need to vent and get the anger and despair off our chests, I was in the same position with my caree.

But all the disgust and anger in the world is getting us nowhere, nor will it. They are going to push these changes through regardless so the only way forward that I can see is to go ahead and do what they say. And yes, I understand how bloody impossible that might be.

If they say a caree is capable, take them to the jobcentre, sit back and say nothing. I don't agree with all this silly talk about leaving our carees and strike action because it is just that - talk. If we were willing to do that, we would not be carers.

Let the so-called advisors deal with them one on one. Let them decide how a non ambulant person who is sitting in front of them can get to work. Let them answer and explain how they will provide a safe environment for someone with learning difficulties who can behave in an odd manner, or who can self harm.
Let them find a company that will take on someone who needs medication administered, or behaves in an anti-social way.
How someone who is physically or mentally incapable of coping with a workplace is actually physically going to get there, stay there, do the work required and get home afterwards. Let them arrange it. They are there to be supportive so that is what they need to do..lets see how they like organising all the care for a change.

It cannot be done but they say it can. Let them prove it or try to..their whole new system will fall apart.

Its emotions ladybird, I'm still outraged by what I saw and heard. His carer, his wife, is willing to take him to any appointed organisation regarding his health issues and they aren't interested. I'm sure there are hundreds and hundreds of people in the same awful position. We have the right to vent our feelings, whether good, bad or indifferent.
A troop of baboons would probably run this country better than the existing one, whether it be Labour, Liberal or Conservative. What about giving the Raving Looney Party a go.............or have we had them already I think my 3 cats would also do a better job

All the best RRB

[Robinredbreast]

Hi Ladybird.
I know exactly where you are coming from BUT
As you know, hubby has lost his ESA and been put in the work group. I did exactly as you suggested - took him to the job centre where someone interviewed him. He had several absence attacks infront of the interviewer and was obviously unwell. The interviewer admitted that there was no work he could do and that there was no point in going on any courses.
However, this doesnt alter the fact that he is still in the work group and until we successfully appeal he will remain there. After 12 months, unless he gets a paid job (I know, I know), then he will loose all benefits as I am working.
The person making the decision that he can work is not the same as the person in the job centre who knows that there are no jobs he can do. And the person making that decision will never actually meet him and doesnt care - so long as they meet the government target.

I really dont know what the answer is.

Sorry Crocus, I don't know the answer either it stinks. RRB

[bowlingbun]

The idea of letting people try it so they can fail miserably is inhumane. My son with SLD was offered an "Out of County" placement at a brilliant farm college BUT funding was only going to be provided IF he got rejected from the local college. His face and manner told me everything as he was being shown round by the course leader, who kept saying something that even I couldn't understand, using a word that sounded like Elleffeye. Only later did I find out that the course was called Learning for Independence, abbreviated to LFI! Stupid woman (I had been offered her job a few years earlier but couldn't take it because I couldn't get respite). The second year, M. had an even more hang dog expression as we walked round, obviously wondering what the heck he was doing....until we met the caretaker, who just happened to be a steam engine owner who had known M all his life. M immediately turned into his usual chatty self, but as soon as they parted, was silent again. The third year I just refused to take him, telling the county that he wasn't a performing seal and had already had so much rejection in his life (all 14 local respite carers) that neither of us could take any more, which was grudgingly accepted. These are people the government are talking about, not inanimate objects to be rammed as hard as possible into some pigeon hole to try and get them to fit when they don't! How much permanent damage is going to be caused to people's fragile self esteem?

[ladybird]

All points taken on board - I also hope you see where I was coming from.

I don't normally go into long detail about my personal situation because I think it detracts from what others are trying to say.
I do understand, only too well. My daughter had a meltdown at the medical, lies were told as I requested the medical report and she too was put in the work group.

I appealed and it took over 6 months and nearly cost me my sanity. I know what is inhumane, I was there too. My family and I suffered years of being held ransom in our own home because of my daughter's behavioural issues and needs and before anyone says it - there was NOWHERE else for her to go..we were told this during a crisis situation, alternative was sectioning in a psychiatric unit of a general hospital.
Chuck into the mix a large quantity of medication, including insulin and HRT, someone who cannot EVER have unsupervised access to food.. all this on someone less than 20 years old.

My caree has been in a secure unit for people with severe behavioural problems for a year and a half now. My appeal for her ESA was successful but if it hadn't been, I can imagine where we would be now.
The person who they said was able to work with support is in a locked unit-luckily now doing brilliantly. I KNOW exactly how inhumane this system is because I have been through it.

I also know and understand (as I pointed out) the need to vent. I don't want anyone to think I don't have sympathy, nor empathy, especially with your situation Crocus.

But I hope that my point can be empathised with as well..we ALL do have the right to say how we feel. I have said how I feel too.

xx

[Nilla]

I have all the 'joys' of esa to come! My friends son also Downs cannot read well or write well, he like Sarah cant tell the time, doesnt know money, cant independant travel and they put him on jobseekers!! My friend appealed on his behalf and had to go before a panel, they fired questions at Tom who has been taught stranger danger and not to speak to them so he did what he normally does when confronted....he sat growling he got esa!
I expect we will have to appeal for Sarahs and she growls too

This government disgust me and last night I watched a programme called 16 Kids and Counting and there was an immigrent family on who had never worked and all he could go on about was having more kids! They get all the benefits without ever having paid into the system but people who pay im get nothing!

[bowlingbun]

I'm empathising with everyone on this topic. I even understand the theory behind what the government is saying. We don't want people put on the scrapheap when they could have a job and all that goes with it, money, self esteem etc. etc. We don't want people pretending to be disabled because they don't want to work. It's just that somewhere it's all gone horribly wrong.