Attendance Allowance / PIP / DLA / SDP : Paid To Family Carer ? There Are " Problems " NOT Advertised !

[Chris From The Gulag]

Yet another grey area that has no legal answer ... so far ... over 10 sources checked ... none specify what a caree can or cannot do with these monies.

Many readers carees will be in receipt of AA ( If over state retirement age ) and PIP ( New money benefit for those under the state retirement age ).

Both benefits are paid to the caree for use in " Obtaining additional care support " ... confirmed by numerous sources including the Government's own site !!!

After rereading several threads , a fair number of readers assume that these monies can be safely passed over from the caree to the carer ... as additional income to the carer ... almost to a carer , informally.

During my time as a lone carer , all monies coming in to my caree and myself went into one pot , and all expenses paid out of the same pot ... a partnership arrangement which is exactly the true state of affairs in my caring situation.

That arrangement would have had all agencies screaming " You can't do that , the system wouldn't cope ! "

Question ... and considering the grey area exposed when examing Direct Patments and the use of family carers , do any readers actually declare payments received through AA / PIP on their tax returns ?

Direct payments thread :

https://www.carersuk.org/forum/support- ... care-30902

Would receiving AA / PIP originated monies also impact on that carer's current range of benefits ... including those juggling working with caring ?

If DP's are paid to the caree on the basis that they will NOT " Employ " family carers ... thus changing the caree / carer relationship to one of employee / employer ... should the same criteria apply with AA / PIP ?

Obviously , most readers will ignore this deduction and carry on whatever arrangement regardless ... I would second that practice BUT ... there is a question mark however valid which is NOT covered by law.

Scaremongering or not ... this is a grey area ... just how " Grey " is it ?

[bowlingbun]

Really good question Chris. From memory, DLA/PIP are allowances to cover the "extra costs of disability". The additional costs of heating, laundry, etc. etc.
However, many carees seem to squirrel it away (my mum included!) and resent having to use any of it for anything!!
If they expect someone to do jobs for them then that ought to be recompensed in some way. I've been dismayed at carees expecting family to make huge journeys to do jobs for them, but never think about the costs involved. Petrol isn't free just because you are a carer!
Paying for expenses of a carer is fine, not of any interest to the tax man. It might be of interest to DWP if the carer is receiving income related benefits.
Where a caree has over £23,000 (the limit for residential care) I think they should, morally, pay a carer, especially one on benefits, in some way. However, the tax man allows people to give away up to £3,000 in "gifts" if I remember rightly?
Direct payments CAN be paid to relatives, it used to be in "exceptional circumstances" but I don't think that rule applies.

I suspect, and it's a personal opinion, that few carees think about how much their care costs their family carers.

[Chris From The Gulag]

Direct payments CAN be paid to relatives, it used to be in "exceptional circumstances" but I don't think that rule applies.

The DP thread goes to some length pointing out the ambiguities in that assumption.

Employee / employer ... cannot get around that relationship ... it's confirmed by current law.

Therein lies the danger if same argument is extended to AA / PIP.

I have assumed that almost all readers have NEVER given this " Conundrum " a second thought ???

Several threads have highlighted family disputes ... including powers of attorney granted to just one family member ... extend the ambiguity in this Issue a little further ... into a full blown dispute into the use of monies ... and all gloves are off , both sides seeking blood ... ???

Golden rule in CarerLand ... Never take anything as granted ? ... yet again ???

Perhaps I should have chosen " Twirling " today as opposed to a thinking session ?

[Ayjay]

If they expect someone to do jobs for them then that ought to be recompensed in some way. I've been dismayed at carees expecting family to make huge journeys to do jobs for them, but never think about the costs involved. Petrol isn't free just because you are a carer!

I was reading through something the other day which said that if you're in hospital you should inform the DWP and the AA will stop after 28 days in hospital. With my wife currently still in hospital since 3rd Feb I'm now waiting for the arguments with DWP to begin.

I've been attending her almost daily, never less than five times per week, I do all of her laundry at home, she's in normal day clothes every day, I ensure that she has the foods that she prefers as alternatives to the hospital food, that's mainly her breakfast including lactofree milk, and fruit. It's a 50 mile round trip.

I believe that AA is perfectly suited for this purpose and see no valid reason why it shouldn't be paid..

[Chris From The Gulag]

As for the 28 day rule ... some benefits / allowances cease after that time when our caree is under the NHS in hospital ... noted by our very own Lord Kitch :

Caree in hospital ?

I hope it's not longer than 28 days as we will have to stop your Carers Allowance ration.

Travelling each day to visit your caree and / or staying over ?

How good of you but don't expect us to pick up the tab.

Lord Kitch says it better than I can ... says me somewhat tongue in cheek ?

[Chris From The Gulag]

Now posted on the SCOPE forum to gauge the reaction from carees who make up the majority of readers.

Forum :

https://community.scope.org.uk/categori ... ut-pip-dla

Thread :

https://community.scope.org.uk/discussi ... rer#latest

[Chris From The Gulag]

Very interesting reply received from one poster on SCOPE :

https://community.scope.org.uk/discussi ... body_inner


What do you make of this ?

I still consider this Issue to be a grey area as there is no clear cut " Yes / no " in any guidance , nor in law !

[bowlingbun]

We used to run a small business. We paid tax on any money that came into the business from sales etc. LESS EXPENSES. So maybe we should think about any money paid to us by our carees as "expenses". Some things are obvious, like the costs of running a car if your caree can't drive for example. My son's carers charge mileage currently at 45p per mile.
Then there's the cost of laundry, again allowable if you run a business and get things dirty (husband's oily overalls after working in the engine room of a ferry for example). Many carers have far, far worse things to tackle in their laundry!

[Chris From The Gulag]

Just fired an email off to the Disability and Carers Services section at the DWP.

Straight enquiry with no reference to anyone other than me.

Never know just what I may unlease ???

I hate loose ends !

I expect some head scratching , and a contradictory answer ... we shall see ?

Hi ... an odd one but may effect hundreds of thousands.

Elderly person in receipt of Attendance Allowance ( AA ).

A son / daughter lives with them as a family carer ... and is paid Carers Allowance ( CA ).

If the Caree ( Elderly person ) elects to " Pass over " the AA ... as a gift or even an informal payment ... to the Carer , does this create any problems from the following angles :

1. Carer ... should these monies be declared to HM Revenue and Customs as income ?

2. Carer ... IF claiming any income related benefits , should these monies be declared so that the level of other benefits are reduced to take into account the additional income ?

3. Carer / Caree relationship ... under Direct Payments ( DP ) , a Caree cannot " Employ " a family member to care ... creates an employer / employee relationship ... the very last thing any Government would accept ... a family carer also a worker and , as such , everything associated with Employment Law ???

Paying AA over ... same consideration ? ... or something not apparent with any Internet search when trying to nail down the difference ... monies are being paid over , one under DPs , the other under AA.

Practically , the AA monies do " Change hands " ... either to meet joint or sole expenditure faced by carers and their carees when living together under one roof ... in essence , a partnership , akin to husband and wife ... especially so when there is only one carer and one caree ... I type from my own experience as a lone carer.

Ideally , a straight YES and NO type flow chart would be on the Internet somewhere which would be a blueprint for both carers and their carees to follow ... I have yet to locate one.

AA ... fairly modest amount but ... with hundreds of thousand claiming it , and roughly the same number of family carers caring for them ... a sizeable amount ... moving from one person to another ... with no " Rules " as to which Government departments should be aware of potential " Illegalities " being made by , potentially , innocent people ... no knowledge of the law pertaining to the use of AA.

Any assistance to resolve the above " Irregularities " would be most welcomed.

The very last thing any Carer , and / or , their Caree want is to be confronted with a challenge to their normal practice ... either the HM Revenue and Customs / DWP / LA etc. etc.

ps. I have mentioned AA ... same practice may be widespread for PIP ???

Did consider both the CAB and the Carers Uk Advice Line.

However , as the DWP pay these monies over , straight from the horse's mouth ???

I'll post the reply ... when received.

Perhaps , I should give up what I do on here ???

Challenging the accepted way of doing things and the relationship of CarerLand with those on the outside.

Exploring very grey areas ... let sleeping dogs lie ... trouble is , they wake up !!!

[Chris From The Gulag]

No material response yet ... although did receive an acknowledgement from the NI DWP.

Told them to consider ... after all , 4 corners of the UK ... all singing from the same hymn sheet ?