Worried about grandfathers home care payments

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Hi,

My granddad, father and mother all brought a property which they had been renting for several years from the council 2 years ago. Together, they then all acquired that property at a substantial discount as they had been renting it for numerous years. As part of the terms of sale, they are not allowed to sell that property at market value for the next 5 years (it is at a substantial discount). During this time, my grandfather fell ill and has been residential care for the last year.

Recently, my brother and I brought a new property which my granddad, mother and father have all moved into. Given that my grandfather no longer lives in his old property the council has included his share of the property in the means test used to determine how much the NHS will contribute towards his care fees.

The issue is however that my father will not sell that property until the 5 year period over which the discount provisions apply. This essentially leaves my grandfather with 33% interest in the property which he cannot sell. Moreover he has no cash savings of his own. Given this, there is no way that my grandfather can pay for his share of NHS costs. I would have to pay these costs myself which seems to defeat the purpose of NHS funding. Has anybody had any similar problems or could they offer any advice?

Thanks a lot for taking the time to read :)
Carers UK has a brilliant helpline to answer questions like this. Email them, as the phone is usually engaged, but the WILL get back to you.
Just to clarify, if your father is in residential care, then that is either self-funded, or paid by the Local Authority (Council) not by the NHS. The NHS only pay if the resident needs a LOT of nursing care. Often the NHS pay for the nursing care element of the fees, and the LA or the resident themselves pays for the rest.

This is what happens with my MIL in a care home. She is self-funding, so pays the bulk of the care home fees herself, but the 'nursing care' element is paid by the NHS.

However, as you know, if a resident has over £23,500 worth of savings/property, the LA will NOT pay for the non-nursing care element of the care home fees.

If your grandfather has property assets worth (his share) of over £23,500, then yes, he has to self fund his residential care.

BUT, if he cannot release that money from the sale of his property, the Local Authority usually 'loans' him the care home fees (ie, pays them directly) but then, after his death, or the eventual sale of his (shared) property, will get that 'loan' repaid. They put a charge on the property, which they enforce when it is sold, to get back the care home fees they have paid during your grandfather's lifetime.

My main point though is this - at no point do you, or ANY member of your family EVER pay the care home fees yourselves!

There is NO legal requirement to do so, and the LA nor the care home CANNOT make you!

This is because your grandfather is ONLY responsibly for himself, and he is the ONLY person responsible for himself! YOU are not, and nor is anyone else in the family.

Please ensure YOU do NOT pay care home fees, but pass the entire problem on to the Council/Local Authority, to sort out.

This, basically, is nothing to do with you - it's just between your grandfather, the care home, the LA and, possibly, if there is a nursing care element, the CHC.
I would like to caution you to be VERY careful in your dealings with the local authority (if the NHS were funding granddad's care there would be no charge at all). The LA may not always tell you the truth according to the rules. Sadly, they are sometimes unaware of what the rules say. I reclaimed £8,000 for my own mum as a result.
The LA cannot insist that you sell the property, as two other people have a share. This is where it gets really complicated. Ask the LA to ALWAY WRITE TO YOU. Do not deal with them face to face. Do not speak to them on the phone. Insist it's all in writing (using the excuse that you need to show it to the rest of the family). Very often, when a property is shared, the value of the entire property has to be disregarded, if the rules are applied properly.

Be sure to email the CUK helpline as soon as possible.
Thank you all for the extremely useful advice. I have left an email with the carers helpline however they are only open on Monday and Tuesday. I will contact them then!
I'd also add, that as the family have moved out of the owned, ex-council properly, I assume that they are in receipt of rent from tenants. Granddad will have to declare 33% of that rent as his income on top of any other pension, benefits and income he has
Further to bowling bun's comments, don't believe it just because they've put it in writing. I've had blatant lies written to me by adult services. I read all the legislation so I was 100% sure I was right and stood my ground. I seem to remember using the phrase "just because it's what you normally do doesn't make it legal" quite a lot. Considering they were attempting to make me destitute it seemed well worth the effort. All the more satisfying to get one up on the lying social worker I'd previously put in a complaint about.
That's a really useful phrase!
nhshater wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:00 pm
Further to bowling bun's comments, don't believe it just because they've put it in writing. I've had blatant lies written to me by adult services. I read all the legislation so I was 100% sure I was right and stood my ground. I seem to remember using the phrase "just because it's what you normally do doesn't make it legal" quite a lot. Considering they were attempting to make me destitute it seemed well worth the effort. All the more satisfying to get one up on the lying social worker I'd previously put in a complaint about.
Thanks. I've tried to contact the carer's helpline but they are not picking up the phone (also left an e-mail several days ago). I've looked online at legislation but am struggling to figure out which clause is relevant to my situation:

If you were in a similar situation, could you kindly point me in the right direction?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014 ... 672_en.pdf
The helpline will normally reply to emails within the week. Just be patient, you will be sent a detailed reply which will answer the issues you have asked them about.