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They're Here ... Perhaps Not Quite Yet ... Says Dr. Susan Calvin ? - Carers UK Forum

They're Here ... Perhaps Not Quite Yet ... Says Dr. Susan Calvin ?

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If anyone has a subscription to the Daily Telegraph , perhaps they could post the full article ???

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/ ... an-carers/

Promise elderly that robots will not completely replace human carers, think-tank demands.

What follows is the free bit :

Elderly people need a guarantee from the government that robots and remote-monitoring systems will not completely replace human carers in the future, a think-tank has demanded.

A report by the Social Market Foundation has raised serious fears that the introduction of technology from the “fourth industrial revolution” could increase loneliness among old people as it could be used to totally substitute "the human touch” of care.

The words CART and HORSES spring to mind ?

Unless the military have tested a working robot in a usual classified project ... that doesn't take out everyone as well as the enemy ... nothing anywhere else remotely available.

Still , good to see the journalists out there looking ahead ... beyond their monthly salary date ?

For a few , said salary needs to be bounced around a few offshore islands first ???

The mind boggles on the effects of the first feasible robot coming off the production line.

Fast forward , say , 20 years ... 2038.

First recorded altercation ... ie. punch up ... between 2 robots pushing their carees in wheelchairs ... keeping below the speed limit of 10 mph on the pavement ... narrow pavement ... and neither will give way ???

Adjust the speed restrictor and ... a senior citizens wheelchair grand prix ... I bet a few will be up for that !

I'll reserve judgement ... perhaps a pint of Adnams Broadside ... in a straight glass ... without a head ... the ultimate test ?

Perhaps a 10% discount for having a sponsor's name on the robot ... like a football shirt ?

I wonder what the language is like this morning in Unison's hq ???
Hmm, well, since caring for the elderly is not exactly a popular job, maybe a 'willing robot' would be better anyway? And not run into 'compassion fatigue' either.

One might argue that for patients with dementia, if they 'can't tell' that their carer is an android, that may not be any kind of moral issue in 'decieving' them???

Of course, perhaps it would be preferable to spend the money that is going into designing 'carer robots' into medical research to prevent dementia and age-related-infirmity in the first place!

It would be nice not to need ANY care, irrespective of whether robots or humans provide it!

Some of us turn out to be 'super agers', remaining fit to the end (and sometimes, even, like that scientist who's taken the trip to Dignatas at the age of 104!).

So why can't ALL of us be superagers?????

(And, concomitantly, why are ANY children 'born disabled' or suffer acquired disability in the first place....?)
2038 ?

Electric cars here . there , everywhere ... now add on robots which may need plugging into the mains to recharge ... just like today's males needing to recharge in a pub ... and , hey presto , anyone want to predict the price of electricity ???

Tack on warmer summers ... all modern homes now built to keep the heat IN and demand will exceed supply ... probably for a century or two ?

Prepayment meters would be out ... none could ever function at the speed the wheel spins with that amount of electricity usuage !

Railways ... now super fast trains in all directions ... more robots packed in like sardines ... only just over human passengers ... and yet most run empty ?

No one can afford the fares beyond the top 5% of wage earners ... and they have no need to travel by rail !

Bottom line ?

Power companies shares look cheap ... why not have a few food bank vouchers worth in your portfolio ?
I'm sure some technologies will come along, some will work, some won't.
Most under discussion or development now rely on an app on a mobile phone.
One day the inventors and scientists will realise most elderly persons can't operate such a thing
There will be much more use of remote monitoring and sensors but there will always be a need for human touch at some point
If it's 'human touch' we need not in the literal sense (ie, 'touch') but more like 'compassion' etc, there is a famous example in very early computer days of a program called Eliza (I think it's after Eliza Doolittle).

Bascially the program's function was to 'counsel' people, in place of (very expensive!) psychiatrists.

What the program did was this:

Patient: I've not been feeling very well recently.
Eliza: Oh, you've not been feeling very well recently?
P: No, I'm really down!
E: You're really down?
P: I'm depressed because I've lost my job
E: So you've lost your job?
P: Yes, and my boyfriend's chucked me
E: Your boyfriend's chucked you?

You get he idea - Eliza simply repeated, with a question mark, whatever the patient said.

What's so revealing is that patients who used the programme thought they were intercting with a real person, and said how incredibly sympathetic the therapist was, and how they felt a lot better when they left the consulting room!

Says a lot about folk, to my mind...we don't need 'solutions', we just need to offload. Hey, just like on this forum!!!!! :)
jenny lucas wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 10:30 am
Of course, perhaps it would be preferable to spend the money that is going into designing 'carer robots' into medical research to prevent dementia and age-related-infirmity in the first place!
Theres no profit to be had in prevention/cure which is why we're in the midst of an opoid addiction crisis fast spiraling out of control in the developed world.

Its the same argument for many things wrong in the world.. we have the resources (finances) to solve most problems, but its more profitable to have things as they are. Its why you have poverty, hunger, war etc

They'll be salivating at the mere thought of potential savings of a workforce based on automated systems versus an actual living/breathing workforce that has rights, wages, working conditions, etc
Chris - can't disagree with a word you said! Wish I could, but you are spot on.
The future's bright ... for a few ?

Automation ... almost inevitable in more ways than we can currently imagine.

Effect on social care ?

Minimal ... almost impossible to replicate the human element when dealing with pateients and our own carees.

Future careers ?

I foresee more zero hour contract type employment in the service industry as more jobs in the manufacturing sector are lost through automation. Perhaps one's working week will be in chunks , split between 3 / 4 jobs ... a nightmare for the DWP when accessing bolt on benefits and future pensions ?

High street shopping as we know it will be a thing of the past. The use of rudimental drones to deliver is interesting ... perhaps one can be programmed to actually knock on one's door and , if that person is out , leave a card ? Now that would be progress over today's carriers !!!

The biggest change will be the acceleration in the chasm between and poor.

If we think it's too wide today , imagine just 20 years on ... 2038.

Capital ... invested in automation with costs considerably less than employing human beings ... assumption based on the return on capital employed ... heavy upfront but light running costs.

Question ?

How will " Society " cope with a potential unemployment rate close to 5 million ... many long term ... and simply , " Surplus to requirements ? "

Opens up all the old arguments ... birth control / benefit levels ( If no Universal Payment scheme in place by then ) / housing ( Demand continuing to exceed supply ... level of rents ? ) ... and many more now polarised as society cannot adapt to the " New World. "

Not a nice cocktail of Issues , each pulling in different directions.

Politically ?

More uncertain than the debacle we are seeing today ... possibly a resurgence in the extreme Right but , on balance , the same old players in power.

Technology wise ... simplier and easier BUT ... as many of us find today , some of the old ways were more enjoyable ... like using a fountain pen rather than a keyboard ( Note to self !!! ) / making our own food as opposed to opening a packet of a ready made diner ... dissidents in many ways , making our OWN choices !

Today ... out twirling or simply get back into the habit of reading a book ?

Eric Sykes's autobiography picked up on Saturday ... why not ... good for the concentration rather than switching Internet windows for 14 / 15 hours ?

Choice of several hundred well read books ( Over the past 50 odd years ... nudging 2,000 at one point in a past life ) ... almost recite some by heart ... John Wyndham / John Le Carre / Isaac Asimov and a few DTI reports on dodgy dealings ( Dowgate / Crown Agents / L&C etc. ) spring to mind.

Come 2038 , there will be millions more of us facing that same decision daily ... and for weeks / months / years on end as our own body clocks tick on towards midnight ... and when that final chime is heard , it really is " Goodnight Vienna ! " ... and off to the local lime pit.

No extra time nor a penalty shoot out ?