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Who controls your life? - Page 3 - Carers UK Forum

Who controls your life?

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71 posts
Scally, will you please, please get Diabetes right?
You are talking about Type 2 Diabetes, which may or may not be attributed to lifestyle.

Type 1 is an auto-immune disease, it is NOT caused by lifestyle habits and it is NOT preventable.
I think I have already stated here my support for a citizens universal wage, and the abolition of all disability related and carers national state benefits, with extra support provided at more local level through direct payments and social care services provision, so I'm not so much playing devils advocate here around the workfare theme as playing around with how to move the deck chairs on the Titanic of disability benefits. But yes, I was being a bit naughty and rhetorical, because I wanted to come up with a direct personal example after the debate, not before it. For reasons that will become apparent, hopefully!

We are talking about all adults with disabilities of any kind, and obviously younger adults are much more important than older ones in terms of trying to get them into work.: in terms of both the economic and social consequences of failure. My son hasn't seen his GP in years, he isnt sick, and he is only 16, but all I had to do to get a sick note for benefit purposes was phone the receptionist: "You can pick it up at reception!"

So, who exactly is making the assumption that my son is unfit for work at the tender age of 16? Why, the GP, of course, without a blind bit of knowledge about the complexity of the syndrome, and maybe half a days lecture at medical school twenty-five years ago. And yet all I ever hear here is people complaining about ATOS: but what if my son could work, with support and help? What then? And who is the loser? Arent we all?
Still think I'm being offensive? Or is it the system itself, by sorting people into irrational useful or worthless citizens categories, that is so deeply offensive to us all?
Type 1 is an auto-immune disease, it is NOT caused by lifestyle habits and it is NOT preventable.
I know, and you are very patient with my shortcomings, I even get MS and ME confused sometimes: but its not my fault, we laymen all get into a pickle unless we are directly involved with the disease: but why Oh why can't the Diabetes community get together and come up with a more imaginative nomenclature? Take whales for example, we call them "sperm, killer, or pilot" not type 1 and type 2 whales ... or is it just me?
Type 1 and 2 are medical terms, Scally. Type 1 refers to those born with diabetes, Type 2 to those who have late onset - like myself. How much of it is avoidable is an interesting question: I'm the fifth generation in my family on my father's side to go down with it. Lifestyle didn't help but I know people who are a lot trimmer than me who had no reason to expect diabetes other than it ran in the family. Sure, the risk factors make it more certain. But there you go. My boss doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, is only a little overweight and had a heart attack at the age of 52. Go figure.

As for the case I mentioned, the guy was unemployed and actively looking for work. He became unfit for work and didn't recognise the signs. I did - and sent him to see his doctor. That was a part of my job - make sure those who are signing for work are actually able to do so. Whether, with treatment, he became fit for work later I don't know - I'd left that office a few months later. It was not about signing him onto disability benefits, although that was the result - and that was my point. Easy to criticise Jobcentres without knowing what really went on. Far more were "lost" to changes in counting unemployment - a political decision by the then Secretary of State. Anyone over 60 and unemployed disappeared from the count in the 80s, knocking off at least 100,000 from the count. They had benefits thrown at them but didn't count as unemployed. Now that point is worth criticism.

I understand - and agree with - your point about your son. But just because he is able enough to work doesn't automatically mean that everyone who is disabled can, any more than it means that because J has Down Syndrome he can't work. As always, it depends on a wide range of factors. One of them is the fact that few parents ever receive any support that aims at making their kids more independent. In some cases they don't have a clue what's wrong in the first place, let alone how to "fix" it. So do we penalise them for not knowing?

How about withdrawing any support for "self-inflicted" illnesses? Except it's not that simple, is it? We could argue "why should we pay for their mistakes?" - but then there are those who would argue that Down Syndrome is preventable.

And I don't agree with that argument either.
Smiling at this one Scally.
It has been Diabetes UK week this week,and there is one argument going on, over the Facebook page about precisely that!
Of course, the people who object to anything different are the people with type 2, not the people who in the main have a young child with type 1, and struggle to get schools to recognise that it is not because of the child's diet that they have this diagnosis.
Do you mind if I just take your quote and give it to one of the Mums who does a lot of public speking to raise awareness among professional people?
by the way, I would be quite likely to be diagnosed with type 2 at some time,unfortunately.
I agree, Scally, that a diagnosis of Downs which is indisputable is not grounds for writing someone off, as with all disabilities it is a matter of the degree of impact on function and many people with Downs do work, but J is probably better off on ESA and following his own path towards employment than being placed on a government work scheme, for example Pathways was not exactly a resounding success.

But again I think that you are looking at the issue from your own narrow personal perspective and ignoring the reality of other people's lives, including those for whom work will never be a viable option and who will always need the support of the State in order to survive and it is these people who the DWP and ATOS routinely fail. The appeal figures speak for themselves, those who are represented at appeal have a 70% success rate, even those who do not have representation at appeal have a 40% success rate.

Of course a social wage, set at a level which recognised that some people have higher costs than others, would be the ideal solution but it is not going to happen in our life times and I do not want to live in a society which abandons those least able to compete in order to survive to destitution and homelessness and this is where this belief that anyone can work if they tried harder is leading, sick and disabled people sanctioned because they cannot comply with the demands placed on them.
I totally agree Parsifal.
Well said.
Do you mind if I just take your quote and give it to one of the Mums who does a lot of public speaking to raise awareness among professional people?
Not at all]http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/ ... 6765725.jp[/url]
The question is how can we combine the flawed benefits system with employment to give someone with restricted ability an incentive to get up in the morning]

Paid employment is not the only incentive to get up in the morning, disabled people, whatever their disability, do not universally get up late, some have children to get ready for school, some do voluntary work, some are carers, etc. they are no different in these respects to the rest of society. And some get up early because, believe it or not, there is more to life than work and they have a whole day's living to do.
if that means the State subsidising the wage up to 100%, reducing benefits pro-rata, and paying for a support worker or other access improvements and workplace adjustments then I'm broadly for it as long as the person is better off and the job has meaning and value.
What is the problem if the person has the skills for the job with the employer paying the rate for the job? If someone can do the job with support they are the equal of every other employee doing the same job. I do not think that you have thought this one through]But enforced idleness is just as corrosive in the long run as more visible forms of abuse.
Oh dear, what do you think disabled people do all day? Are you suggesting that anyone who is not in paid employment is idle? That being without work is corrosive? How corrosive are the lives of pensioners who, having worked all their lives, have the time to do things they dreamed of doing without the constraints of work? Can you show me where you have seen this "visible" form of abuse which is the result of the "corrosive effect" of "enforced idleness"? You may live to work, Scally, but many people work to live, every single person has worth and usefulness beyond that which is to be found in employment and the fact that someone does not work does not mean that they do not contribute in other ways or that their lives are less rewarding than those who do work.

Please do not speak for people with disabilities or assume that you know what our lives are like or what is good for us, look around the many disability forums and you will see that being unemployed and disabled does not deny someone a useful and fulfilling life. We all have different aspirations and your aspirations for your son, whilst I have enormous respect for the work you and your wife have put in to ensure that J has as many opportunities as possible, are not necessarily every disabled person's aspirations or even feasible. I do not assume to know what is best for people who are disabled, I think that each individual can decide that for themselves, so I am not sure what qualifies someone without a disability to presume to know something that someone with a disability cannot know.
71 posts