Paying for Care home

[Lapwing]

Hello,

I moved in to my mum’s flat to be her carer about 7 years ago. My marriage was ending and it seemed a solution to help us both at the time However she has had a few falls recently and has now ended up in hospital. There is some talk of her being unable to return home. It is a bit up in the air at the moment. I always wanted to continue to care for her at home, but there is an ongoing risk of her falling and next time she could ‘break her neck’, we have been told. The question is for me whether I will end up homeless if she goes into a home and they want to take her property to pay for her care. I am 58, earning part time money supplemented by Carer’s allowance. I am in the process of a divorce at the moment and eventually I should get some money from the sale of the family home, but not sufficient to buy another property and pay all the bills. Does anyone know if I have any rights to remain in my mum’s flat?

I am extremely upset about my mum’s health situation, but with the additional insecurity of my future position, it is becoming very hard to hold it together at the moment.

Thanks
Diane

[Chris From The Gulag]

Hi Diane ... a holding reply until the calvary arrive.

Very quiet on here for the past several days.

Age UK for a guide on paying for residential care and selling one's home to do so ... two separate links from the main web page :

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-ad ... care-home/

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-ad ... -for-care/

If your mother was to move into residential care , you would no longer need to be her carer ?

As such , exploring the options available in the outside world seems logical ... if that event was to occur.

An online benefits calculator would give you some idea of income post caring ... presumably ESA would be on the cards ?

Perhaps even the local letting market if , down the line , the worst comes to the worst.

A Right to remain ... as a sibling in residence ?

Is both the legal and beneficial ownership solely in your mother's name ?

I hope the Age UK guides cover that ... if not , shout , and I'll do some more digging.

My gut answer is no ... even if one were to place an equitable charge on the property ( Similar effect to the old Class F charge ) ... LA would probably have that removed ... you would need to seek legal advice to be sure on that aspect.

My knowledge of property law ... once quite extensive ... is some 27 years out of date !

There again , if charges for residential care clock up against the value of the property , there could be almost nothing left in equity ... fees north of £ 600 per WEEK ... higher in many areas ... ( Beyond £ 23,000 if my assumption is correct ? ) ... and that would need paying at some future date ... on the death of your mother ?

Not a nice predicament for any carer ... and yet hundreds , if not low thousands , face the same type of decisions every year.

[Henrietta]

Hi Diane
Sorry you find yourself in this impossible position but the law stinks in this area and sadly yes your home could be sold if forced to by the LA. If you are under the magical age of 60 then you have no legal right to remain in the property . I had lived in family home for 50 years and ploughed all my money into it but LA would have taken it off me if Dad had lived that long. Boro of Poole have no morals whatever.
I would suggest as you are nearer that magical age of 60 than I was that if finances permit you struggle on with bank loan or credit cards or whatever means for the next 12 months to pay for private carers or live in carers. . If mum needs to go into care home sooner than that, do it on a respite basis rather than moving her permanent home and foot the bill yourself. it may well be a huge struggle to pay for care for 18 months but better than losing flat.in the financial long term.
Others may think this is bad advice but have not trodden in your shoes.

[Lapwing]

Thank you Chris and Henrietta for your replies.

Through one of the age concern links from you Chris, I found something about NHS continuing healthcare. I suspect this could apply to my mother if the hospital decides she cannot return to her own home. We don’t know yet exactly how we stand on this. I think the doctors are investigating the reasons for her falls to see if there is an underlying health condition as the cause for these. I suspect it may be due to frailty and deterioration of her muscles and balance. But I am hoping that we can get some funding on the basis of her possible inability to be on her own during the day? Maybe some provision of carer support in her own home? We, my brother and I have been told there will be a meeting with us at some point to discuss some options.

Diane

[Chris From The Gulag]

Your welcome , Diane.

NHS continuing health care ?

CHC main thread :

https://www.carersuk.org/forum/support- ... inks-32532


4th. Section down :

Not eligible for CHC but may be so for NHS funded nursing care ?

2 links in that section that spell out NHS continuing health care in not unpassable , plain English !

Still a bit of a minefield ... brew a mug before reading !

Assuming CHC is unavailable ?

[jenny lucas]

I definitely agree it could well be worth 'toughing it out' in respect of your mum NOT going into residential care, if you can make it through to 60 and then her flat will be (??) 'disregarded' (ie, can't be sold to pay for her care).

That said, you mention a brother - so, in the end, who will inherit from your mum? You need to work out in advance that IF you are providing 'free care for your mum so she doesn't need to go into residential care and have the flat sold to pay for it' that therefore YOU will get 'more' of the flat's worth when she does die.

It would be quite unfair if your bro left you to do all the care-work 'free' then walzed off with half the value of the flat, without lifting a finger!!!!

[bowlingbun]

Hi Diane,

Welcome to the forum. Firstly, I want to reassure you that you will NOT be made homeless if mum goes into residential care.
There are two main options.
!. The house is sold if no one is living there and no one wants to keep it - obviously not for you.

2. The council place a "charge" on the house so that if and when it's sold, they get their fees back.

However, there are lots of what I call "ifs, but's and maybe's" amongst all this, so you need to EMAIL our Carers UK helpline so they can explain it all in depth.

Is mum mentally able to make her own decisions?
If so, then she must be given a choice. Does she want to go into residential care, or go home?

Care homes can't be with patients all the time, so the chance of falling in a care home is also possible. If the risk of falling is recognised, that it is MUM's choice, and no one else's.
If you are happy to care for her, then she should go home with a good package of care for you to have time off.

I'd rather take the risk, go home, with my daughter and all my things around me to a higher risk of falling and break my neck than live longer in a care home! In her own home with a loving daughter the risk might be lower.

What's mum's financial situation. Does she have over £23,000 in savings? Yes/No?

[Henrietta]

Good luck with CHC but be warned extremely hard to qualify, Dad got turned down and had fractured spine, Stage 4 kidney failure, advanced dementia, cataracts, nearly deaf, major stroke, major stomach ulcer , atrial fibrilation , pressure sores, skin tears and fell downstairs and broke a leg, numerous UTIs, sepsis------and still didn't get CHC

[jenny lucas]

Horribly, the most important question is the one that is unanswerable - it's the 'how long will mum live?' question.

That is what 'bedevils' all these decisions that have to do with money, and providing care in the family.

From the latter perspective, just 'how long' could you face caring for your mum for? I know that sounds brutal, but it boils down to that, alas. My friend moved her father with dementia in with her six years ago - he is still going strong....

That said, I'm not saying DON'T have your mum back home - it might be fine for you, and if you are both happy with it, then it doesn't matter how long she lives! (though inevitably her care needs are likely sadly to increase with age)

From the financial perspective, though, it's a killer question. I know BB is saying the council will only put a charge on her flat, but if she lives long enough to basically spend the entire value of her flat, then when she does eventually die, it will be sold and neither you nor your sibling will get a penny!

My MIL has lived now 4 years 'in care, and is looking at running out of all the money she got from selling her flat to pay her care home fees. She will either die broke, or be 'on the council' by then. Just as well no one in the family was counting on an inheritance!!!!

If your mum does into residential care, and a charge is put on her flat, then there could well be 'nothing left' by the time she eventually does die.

That's why, if the inheritance is important to you, you really do have to face that tough option - and know for certain whether you reaching 60 will safeguard the property for you so that the council can NEVER use its value against her care. (IF that is so??)

[jenny lucas]

PS - the WORST case scenario is where a family member attempts to 'safeguard' the family home, by providing the care for their parents themselves, but then, after years of doing so, the parent STILL has to go into care in the end, and the home is STILL sold to pay for it!

Far better to have 'given up' on providing care, right from the off, have the parent in a home, use up all the value of the home and then for the parent to 'go on the council' when they are broke.

DO be aware of that 'worst of all worlds' scenario of the first paragraph!