Nhs Continuing Care

[Dancedintherain]

I will welcome any amendments, criticism,comments,additions or deletions from the professional staff of CUK.

It is likely that many carers will have an interest in this subject.

I suggest CUK consider the usefulness of publishing links to the National Framework and the Guidelines, similar to what other charities publish.Directgov site blah blah blah

An outline guide in brief would be useful too which could be published within the website, within the forum or within both.

Here is my attempt at a draft outline.

"CC is not awarded on the basis of any (or many) illness,condition or disability. It is based on assessing whether the needs are social or health needs. Emphasis is placed on the complexity, unpredictability and overlapping nature of health needs.

If the initial checklist (OR the opinion of the medical team) suggests CC might be awarded the full assessment process will be undertaken. Except in the case of fastTrack pathways possibly involving palliative care where the method differs slightly.

The Full assessment decision is assisted by the Decision Support Tool. The DST lists categories to be assessed and includes:- cognition,behaviour,psycho/emotional,communication,mobility,nutrition,continence,skin integrity,breathing,drug therapies/symptom control,altered states of consciousness,plus one other for health needs which do not fit well elsewhere

The results will range from low to severe "

This information should be a rough guide to knowing if it was worth pursuing.

I also add that many charities can help with advice and that many care home managers have a great deal of knowledge on the subject too.

Typographical errors amended.

[no1mum]

Flagged it up to be looked at.

[Dancedintherain]

Thank you. Who knows, this might now lead to something worthwhile

I have myself just spotted a couple of amendments needed to the draft. Quickest way I can add them is to repost and put amendments in capitals. I will try that now.

[Dancedintherain]

[quote]I will welcome any amendments, criticism,comments,additions or deletions from the professional staff of CUK.

It is likely that many carers will have an interest in this subject.

I suggest CUK consider the usefulness of publishing links to the National Framework and the Guidelines, similar to what other charities publish.Directgov site blah blah blah

An outline guide in brief would be useful too which could be published within the website, within the forum or within both.

Here is my attempt at a draft outline.

"CC is not awarded on the basis of any (or many) illness,condition or disability. It is based on assessing whether the needs are social or health needs. Emphasis is placed on the complexity, unpredictability and overlapping nature of health needs.

If the initial checklist (OR the opinion of the medical team) suggests CC might be awarded the full assessment process will be undertaken IF THE PATIENT GIVES INFORMED consent. Except in the case of fastTrack pathways possibly involving palliative care where the method differs slightly.

The Full assessment decision is assisted by the Decision Support Tool. The DST lists categories to be assessed and includes]

[Matt Hill]

Thanks for raising this.

At the moment we don't have any online information on NHS continuing care. As you know it's a complex legal area. It is covered in our book "Carers and their rights - the law relating to carers" by Professor Luke Clements which is available to buy.

I'll raise your point with our Advice and Information team.

Thanks
Matt

[Dancedintherain]

For those of you whose caree is funded as mine is by NHS CC ......in case you don't know the winter fuel allowance if applicable still gets paid. Even if, like in our case, the caree is in Care Home of any sort as long as he/she is receiving basic State Pension.

Weird isn't it? I tried to refuse it last year but nope, it is an entitlement.

[bowlingbun]

The best book I've found on this subject is Community Care, Practice and the law by Michael Mandestam (fourth edition) Really important to see the latest edition as the section is much larger.

[Dancedintherain]

It is a pity that our CUK advisors have not been able to add something to this topic.

Had the fundamental criteria been explained in very simple and easily digestible terms it would have saved various members and indeed the carees from false expectations and unnecessary stress and burdens.

So again,I will add something in the hope it will give better understanding of this subject.
As ever, I will welcome amendments from the professional staff if they see fit to help out.

Like it or not we each need to be realists and accept that the Standard Criteria for the awarding of NHS continuing care is in place and information on it is freely available.
The criteria is set and the bar is high. If our carees HEALTH needs reach the criteria Continuing care will be awarded. If our carees do NOT reach the criteria CC will NOT be awarded.

CC is awarded to those who have significant often overlapping and complex HEALTH care needs as opposed to SOCIAL care needs. UNDERSTANDING the difference between the two seems to be the STUMBLING BLOCK for many.

Rule of thumb guidelines:-

1. Needs which can be managed by care workers in any setting including care/nursing homes are classified as SOCIAL needs. SOCIAL needs are likely to include feeding, everyday continence care, also assistance with mobility needs.

2. Assistance and or monitoring of drugs can be carried out in a nursing home setting by a registered nurse. It is likely that the nursing care ELEMENT of NHS Continuing care will be awarded for this responsibility.

3. HEALTH care needs can be diverse but to reach the SET CRITERIA the needs are complex and often overlapping.
Previous health conditions are not pertinent. It is the CURRENT health needs which are assessed. It is not based on any one named condition or named illness, nor on many. It is examined on the basis of the Nature of current health needs.
(It might help all of you to concentrate on how many consultants are Currently involved with the patient)

lastly, I note that if the patient needs social care only (as defined above in brief) has no savings or property, there will be help available but NOT from NHS Continuing Care.

I do so hope this has clarified things for those of you who are so obviously struggling with this.

My credentials? None. I am not an expert. Which is why I initially asked for assistance from the CUK advisors.
My caree has been fully funded by NHSCC for about two years now and has just been reviewed. It has been awarded for a further six months until his next review. For interest, it was not awarded solely on the grounds of dementia.

You might also like to know that we had no need to apply for funding. The medics approached us asking if we would like the assessment.

Overall, life is about realism. Understanding the facts.

[bowlingbun]

I am going through this process at the moment.

The Poynton judgement accepted that CHC could be granted even when care was not being provided by qualified staff. That is a fact, it is not my own opinion. (I was pointed in the direction of the case by one of the most senior decision makers in my County. In fact, I'd seen Mrs. Poynton on a TV programme about 10 years ago, caring for her husband with dementia. At that time it was an area of caring which I was not involved with).

The Coughlan case defined the levels between social and health needs. If health needs are deemed to be more than ancillary to the social care, then the NHS should pay. That is the view of a senior High Court judge, not my opinion.

After the Coughlan judgement, the NHS developed a National Framework, however that Framework sets the level so high that even Pam Coughlan might not qualify if she applied now.

I have already personally approached a member of Carers UK staff to develop more information on this subject.

Very recent government documents say that CHC should be offered to far more, not far less people. Nevertheless, the number of people who are receiving it have gone down substantially in the area near me.

It is very likely that the Framework is unlawful. That is not my opinion, it is the opinion expressed by an acknowledged expert on the subject. It has yet to be tested in the High Court.

[Dancedintherain]

An addition to my previous post.. The assessment can take place in any setting, our carees do not have to be hospitalised to be assessed.