My brothers going in a home and "above" £23,250

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Hello all you wonderful carers. :arrow:

I've had my assessment for my brothers care, and it all went well as far as i know. It lasted about 2 hours (save 10 minutes). The capital in my bank account WAS halved as was predicted by posters here (thank you), so there was no problems with that. Also, my online saver wasn't taken Into account, as I told the assessor it was for my brothers future and so was disregarded.

It seems to me that the home fees will come from my brothers ESA. Not totally sure how they work it out. Not had any info yet regarding bills/payments etc, as he's only been there less than two weeks. Also his mobility is disregarded.

Top up fees.

Well, the assessor (and my social worker) told me that we'll l have to pay third party fees @ £40 per week.

As per the leaflet:



When is third party needed?

If the preferred care home charges a fee higher than the amount we would expect to pay for the residents care, the additional amount can be paid by a third party.

Third party arrangement are agreed at the beginning of the placement and admission can only proceeed once an agreement has been reached. When someone agrees to become a third party payee, they are entering into a contractual agreement to make these payments from their own resources.

The person agreeing to the arrangement must satisfy themselves of their responsibilities. We will not carry out a financial assessment for the THIRD PARTY PAYEES but we will neeed to be satisfied that the arrangement is sustainable.


It goes on a bit more, but my social worker tells me that this is good (£40.00 P/W) as some care homes charge £100 P/W.

At the bottom of the leaflet, it says that if a third party payee is unwilling to meet an increased fee, it may be possible to negotiate with the case home. (Hmmmmm)

Then it goes on to say that the council can ask the resident (my brother) to move to a less expensive room or even move to another home providing they are able to meet the assessed needs.
bowlingbun wrote:That's good, Do NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES sign to say you will pay "top ups" because that is unlawful. Some LA's forget to tell you that any top up is "voluntary"!!!
Is the above common for a an assessment/third party etc, or do they vary from county to county, home to home etc. ?

They are trying it on! If the council arranged the placement, without any consultation with you, then THEY are responsible NOT YOU. I hope you didn't sign anything?
When my son was in residential care, paid for by the council, he was left with about £25 spending money. His care element of DLA was withdrawn (but can be paid if he comes to stay with you, as can the Carers Allowance). The CUK helpline will be able to give you the best advice, the above is just from my personal experience, to be taken as a guide only.
I agree that top ups should only be asked for when you, or your brother, has requested a different Home from that selected by the Social services, and if that preferred Home is more expensive than their choice..
In your case neither you nor your brother chose a different home, and for what you say about his finances, Social services should pay all his costs. To do this they will use all his benefits except for a weekly sum thye will leave him as 'pocket money'

You should not use any of your money for your brother's care, not a penny. They should only have assessed his finances NOT yours.
Don't agree to any top ups and don't sign anything!!!

It's been signed a week ago. They assessed his finances not mine. We agreed (my other brother and sister) to pay the £40.00 fee.

From another website: ... p-up-fees/

Care home top-up fees – some key points from the Independent Age report:
Top-up fees are required only when the person needing care or their family have specifically requested more expensive accommodation. They should not be charged just because a care home costs more than the local authority/council is willing to pay.
Care home top-up fees should only be paid by relatives who are able and willing to pay them.
Local authorities are responsible for top-up arrangements. However, many such arrangements are made between a care home and a relative – with the local authority out of the picture.
Often local authorities fail to direct people towards independent advice; they also fail to explain a person’s right before top-up contracts are signed.
Many local authorities are in breach of the Choice of Accommodation Directions (LAC(2004)20. These Directions prevent local authorities/councils from asking for top-up fees as a blanket policy.
If a relative cannot pay third party top-up fees, the local authority is responsible in full for the full cost of care.
These are just some of the many important points that come out of the report. It also names specific councils/local authorities and highlights the degree to which they are ignoring their responsibility towards relatives – and breaking national guidance on third party top-up fees.

So remember these 5 points about top-up fees – regardless of where the care is being provided:

They should only be charged if a person is receiving a genuine upgrade in the services they’re receiving.
The family must give informed consent before any top-up fees are charged.
Top-up fees are voluntary.
They are the exception – not the general rule.
They should not be requested from families to plug the gap in local authority funding.
One final point – many families are told to pay top up fees before their relative has been assessed for full NHS Continuing Healthcare funding. This is completely the wrong way round. Read more about care fees and NHS Continuing Healthcare.

I'm really only going by what my assessor and social worker advised me to do.
Me an my family were ABLE (have the funds) and willing to pay it. Maybe its because the home is better/more expensive, and he has a double room but a single bed ie: not shared. ?

Ask the council where your brother would go if you refused to pay these fees.

Then check it out to see if it's acceptable - if it is, he can go there.

The point is, your brother is NOT your legal responsibility .If you,and all your family went under a bus (or several of them!) tomorrow, then who would pay these 'top up' fees?

If your brother were an orphan, the council would have to cough up.
PS - what I fear is that having got you to fork out the £40, that will 'amazingly' increase, steadily, more and more, since now both the care home AND the council know they can 'sting' you for the extra money.....

Be on your guard!
I am very concerned that the top up fees will rise, and as your brother is only 60 you could be paying them for 40 years.
What the assessor told you was wrong. They chose the home and the room, your brother is only on benefits and they should pay fully for him.

If you only signed a week ago, hopefully there a cooling off time where you can change your mind. Get a copy of the papers and see if citizens advice can help you, or get a solicitor.

Yes I understand the family is willing, but they should NOT have to pay in these circumstances. Essentially you are covering a funding gap which is not your responsibility. Care home fees rise much faster than inflation and you could face horrendous costs.

jenny lucas wrote:PS - what I fear is that having got you to fork out the £40, that will 'amazingly' increase, steadily, more and more, since now both the care home AND the council know they can 'sting' you for the extra money.....

Be on your guard!
Whatever happens, i wont be paying more that £40.00, ill move him sooner, or maybe have him back home.

Thanks Mrsaverage , ill copy that post and see the authorities, they dont seem to be together anymore though. The assessor I've never seen before til last week, and they might send a different person. social worker seems distant (all of a sudden), and the community nurse for learning disability seems to have fell off the earth. Then there's my occupational therapist, physiotherapists, Dietition for him, Epilepsy nurse specialist, whee chair services, PLUS recliner chair services (both completely different companies) Home dental service, ear specialist, podiatry, local district nurses. Too much to do. I need some help from someone.

We are all (more or less) going to see him Sunday 5 pm, and hopefully things will be ok at the home (though there was issues with. His bedroom door. - two of them. They were lock-coded, and you had to type in the unlock key (they are similar to lift buttons) but wouldn't work! You have to press them very carefully or they go out of sync. Took me 4-5 attempts, and even. The nurse (senior) couldn't do it till 3 attemps.

My main worry here is that my brother suffers severe epilepsy and grand mall seizures, and getting to him fast is AN ABSOUTE PRIORITY. My estimation would be it took 1-2 minutes to open the doors (to access the bedroom) doors, and lots of damage can be done in that short time. He nearly choked once at home but thats another story.

PS: i do have a copy of the signed agreement.

PS #2: edit, i forgot to say that they want me to come to the nursing home Tuesday too, as I've got to sign a document there, but not sure what it is (my sister mentioned this to me) maybe a confirmation of the assessment form OR amount of nursing home cost(s)



You did not place your brother in the home, so you are not legally obliged to sign anything at the home. Their contract is with the LA not you. Remember I got £8,000 back from the LA on this subject.
It sounds as though Social Services are colluding with the care home over these spurious extra costs.

No wonder so many care homes have closed over the last five years.
108 posts