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Muslim man gets benefit for four wives

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:55 am
by Guest
Husbands with multiple wives to get extra benefits after Government gives the green light
By JAMES SLACK

Last updated at 01:34am on 4th February 2008


Husbands living in a "harem" with multiple wives have been cleared to claim state benefits for all their different partners.

A Muslim man with four spouses - which is permitted under Islamic law - could receive £10,000 a year in income support alone.

He could also be entitled to more generous housing and council tax benefit, to reflect the fact his household needs a bigger property.



Extra benefits: Muslim men with multiple wives can claim more for income support

Ministers have decided that, even though bigamy is a crime in Britain, polygamous marriages can be recognised formally by the state - provided they took place overseas, in countries where they are legal.

The outcome will chiefly benefit Muslim men with more than one wife.

Ministers estimate that up to a thousand polygamous partnerships exist in Britain, although they admit there is no exact record.

Potentially, the benefits bill for income support could reach £10m.

New guidelines on income support from the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) state: "Where there is a valid polygamous marriage the claimant and one spouse will be paid the couple rate (£92.80).

"The amount payable for each additional spouse is presently £33.65."

Income support for all of the wives may be paid directly into the husband's bank account, if the family so choose.

Chris Grayling, the shadow work and pensions secretary, said that the decision was "completely unjustifiable".

He added: "You are not allowed to have multiple marriages in the UK, so to have a situation where the benefits system is treating people in different ways is totally unacceptable and will serve to undermine confidence in the system.

"This sets a precedent that will lead to more demands for the culture of other countries to be reflected in UK law and the benefits system."

Mr Grayling also accused the Government of trying to keep the ruling quiet because the topic is so controversial.

Corin Taylor, research director for the Taxpayers' Alliance, said: "British taxpayers are paying a record amount of tax so the Government has a duty to make sure that every penny is spent properly.

"Polygamy is not something which British law allows and therefore British taxpayers should not have to pay for extra benefits for second or third wives.

"If other countries sanction polygamy that is fine but the British taxpayer should not have to fund it."

Ministers launched a review of the benefit rules for polygamous marriages in November 2006, after it emerged that some families had benefited financially.

The review concluded in December last year with agreement that the extra benefits should continue to be paid. But the decision was not publicly announced.

Four departments - the Treasury, the DWP, HM Revenue and Customs, and the Home Office - were involved in the review, which concluded that recognising multiple marriages conducted overseas was 'the best possible' option. In Britain, bigamy is punishable by up to seven years in prison.

Islamic law permits men to have up to four wives at any one time - known as a harem - provided the husband spends equal amounts of time and money on each of them.

The DWP believes the number of people in polygamous marriages entering Britain has fallen since the 1988 Immigration Act, which makes it harder to bring more than one wife to the UK.

But, while a married man cannot obtain a spouse visa to bring a second wife into Britain, some multiple partners may be able to enter the country via other legal routes such as tourist visas, student visas or work permits.

Officials have also identified a potential loophole by which a man can divorce his wife under British law while continuing to live with her as his spouse under Islamic law, and obtain a spouse visa for a foreign woman who he can legally marry.

Immigration rules say entry clearance may not be withheld from a second wife where the husband has divorced his previous wife, and the divorce is thought to be one of convenience.

This is so, even if the husband is still living with the previous wife and to issue the entry clearance would lead to the formation of a polygamous household.

Muslim couples are only married in the eyes of the British state if they undergo a register office wedding as well as a Nikah, or religious ceremony.

Muslim groups say it is quite common for men here to undergo more than one Nikah with different wives. This does not count as bigamy since only the first marriage is legally recognised.

A DWP spokesman said: 'There are fewer than 1,000 polygamous marriages in the UK and only a small percentage of these are claiming social security benefit.

"We recently reviewed the rules regarding benefit payments to customers in a polygamous marriage, which conclude that the rules in place since 1987 provide the necessary safeguards to ensure there is no financial advantage for claimants in a valid polygamous marriage."
http://tinyurl.com/2hpn53

Somehow the government finds the money to do this, but what about the carer who cares for more than one loved one.??? Will they find the money to pay more than one carers allowance?

Interesting but worth looking behind

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:43 am
by Matt Hill
Interesting but worth looking behind the headlines.

Assuming this rule wasn't in place, how much would it cost the government in Income support, to support a household of 5 adults who weren't working?

What I mean is the man and wife one would be treated as couple and then the other 3 wives would be treated as individuals in their own right and be entitled to claim full IS for a single person. By treating them as an "additional supplement of £33.65" I'm guessing the government are saving money? The amount for a 'single' adult over 25 is £59.15, so quite a 'saving'.

Matt

PS _ Carers UK is calling for the Government tro recognise carers who care for more than one person. We hope they will do something to address this is the National Strategy for Carers.

I agree we have to

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:42 am
by Guest
I agree we have to look behind the headlines but it is not just about the actual amount of money being paid out, to me it means that the law is being changed to accommodate a practice that is illegal to our own indigenous population, i am sorry but i am not PC as many people will no, also in the papers this morning was the story that the department of health has ordered staff across the country to be bare past the elbow in a bid to halt MRSA and C-DIFF, THEY SAY THE RULE IS THERE TO INSURE THAT WORKERS CLEAN THEIR HANDS AND WRISTS PROPERLY. Image Image Image Image
Female muslim students have refused to follow this rule because islam forbids women from exposing more than their hands and face in public, i am so sorry, but this is ENGLAND not pakistan, iraq,iran, saudi arabia, this countries law system has not been taken over just yet by sharia law, if these people refuse to abide by the rules of this country then i say they should leave, when i have visited abroad i abide by the laws and practices of that country.

Does that mean that i am allowed to refuse treatment from female muslim doctors who choose to wear the full burkha because i want to see the doctor who is giving me treatment?
Oh no, i suppose the PC brigade would regard that as RACIST. Image Image Image Image

******* disgrace as above what

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:05 pm
by g.herschel
******* disgrace as above what about carers who care for more than 1 person i looked after STAN and the old doll for 8 years only got as you all know one payment even that was c***
carers uk should comment on this kind of thing if his wives are ill will he get multiple payments for carers allowance .

More sloppy journalism from a

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:13 pm
by Carersunited
More sloppy journalism from a misguided rag thats intent to continue constant racist stirrings, on a subject that has nothing to do with caring or carers. Image Image

Or am I reading this wrong that its directly atributable to Muslims the fact that Carers allowance is low?..........surely not??? .

A bit like the recent one blaming Polish workers for caliming for Child benefit for chilren in Poland whilst they work in the UK, nobody pointed out that this works both ways,and a UK worker working in Poland can claim CB in both countries. In fact this is the same for any country within the EU.

Most people will not come

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:15 pm
by Guest
Most people will not come out and comment on issues like this for fear of being branded RACIST, if people wish to brand me RACIST for standing up for the values of my mother and father, and the values of many millions of men and women who died fighting for our freedoms, then so be it, i believe that the government and many of todays establishments are RACIST, they have totally forgotten about the indigenous white classes of this country, i will give you an example, today i had to fill out some council forms, i was asked by the woman behind the counter to tick which ethnic group i came from, i looked down the list and to my utter surprise i was not included, according to the woman the group that i belong to does not exist, i am ENGLISH, i am not british, i am not european, the choices on the form did not include the word english, have an entire race of people been wiped out Image

Yes, claiming child benefit does

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:37 pm
by Guest
Yes, claiming child benefit does work both ways but if that is the case why dont they claim it there Image They claim it here because we pay a much higher rate thats why, pure and simple.
The huge influx of migrants does effect the average man or woman, the poorest of society, the forcing down of wages, thats a fact.
We have a housing shortage in this country, why should people abroad come here and put even more stress on a housing system that cannot cope , a health system that is failing, a schooling system that is failing, Lee Jasper, the race relations expert for the Mayor of London has stated that by the year 2012 white people will be in the minority in london, i suppose i will be branded racist for mentioning that?
We are a small island, we must halt immigration, it is changing the face of this once great country, my local police chief has now travelled to poland to try and get polish officers to come and work here because so many Polish people live in my community, all this does effect what the country has to spend on its people, sadly the indigenous population has been put to the back of the line.
Why should i have to wait at my GPs surgery when some one needs an interpretor, noone ever got me an interpretor when i have been abroad, we are now the laughing stock of the world, this is the only country where people could hijack a plane, be let off, and then cannot be removed from this country because of their HUMAN RIGHTS, it has gone too far, the PC brigade has ruined this country, in a few more years people will start to realise that. Image Image

I remember the government saying that only thirteen thousand polish immigrants would come to this country, they got their figures wrong bye about a million, dont anyone complain when their councils put up council tax, cut back on services to the elderly, for carers, all this immigration does have a huge effect on peoples everyday lives.

the values of many millions

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:46 pm
by Scally
[quote]the values of many millions of men and women who died fighting for our freedoms, ]

Let's never forget that many of those who died for our freedom were our black and brown brothers and sisters from India, Pakistan, Africa and the Caribbean, and they know more a lot more about the value of freedom than we do, after suffering slavery and colonialisation at our hands for so long.

Lets also not forget that this thread is being read by our many black and Muslim members - who are carers just like us. So some of them have slightly different customs, well so what? Polygamy is hardly going to bankrupt the British economy !!!!!

And as a final thought, this isn't an English list, it's for us Scots too, and Irish, and Welsh...and anyone else who wants to pop in for a nice wee blether whatever their skin colour, nationality or religion.... so lets all be try to be polite, shall we?

By the way, why are there no black smilies Image Image Image Image

This was my question at

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:53 pm
by Guest
This was my question at the start of the thread.

Somehow the government finds the money to do this, but what about the carer who cares for more than one loved one.??? Will they find the money to pay more than one carers allowance?

I like what George has commented by asking what will happen if one of the wives becomes ill.


I am so sick and

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:37 pm
by Guest
I am so sick and tired about people bringing up the SLAVE TRADE, if we want to go back even further than that what about the ROMANS, they took slaves, maybe they took some of my distant relatives, i dont care, that subject is such an old one, tell me something new? we are such a evil nation, we have ruined the world, we are to blame for everything, what rot.

How come south africa does not help out its black brothers and sisters who are being tortured and massacred by a BLACK DICTATOR Image one ROBERT MUGABE.?

How come the leaders of south africa will not tell their people to use condoms to help stop the spread of aids?

Our Nation gives billions in aid every year, does this aid get to the poorest of those nations, very little does, it goes into the pockets of corrupt dictators who stash the money in Swiss bank accounts, Robert Mugabe even has a nice villa on lake como in Italy.

I have no guilt whatsoever about my countries past, i am very proud about what this country has done for the world, many countries around the world would actually be better off if we still had colonialism.

When there were white farmers in Zimbabwe there was food on peoples tables, people had money in their pockets, what have they got now? MURDER, STARVATION, CORRUPTION, TORTURE, NO WATER, NO FUEL, no one can blame us for that.

What about Somalia? the country is being run by warlords who are fighting over the resources, we did not start that.

What about the Palestinians, i dont see any of the palestinians ARAB brothers offering them places to live or help them out, their brothers and sisters countries moan and blame others for their plight but dont want to help out themselves.


Peace in the middle east has often been worked out but the people dont want it, they would rather fight and blow each other up than sit down and enjoy a peaceful existence.

The time to stop blaming this country for all the worlds ills happened a long time ago, its just easier for people to blame this country for all their problems it means they dont have to take a hard look at themselves. Image