locked-in

[Maxi]

i think hastening what seems only inevitable,is,in my view,Playing God.

[Lazydaisy]

I wasn't going to post again on here, but one more thought.
You have an adult relative, dying.They need a heart and lung transplant. A child who is an exact match is knocked down by a car.The child is being kept alive on life support, until your relative is prepped for the surgery.
Whose life do you save?

By the way, Rosemary, perhaps it would be a good idea to separate the two discussions. Thank you.

[charles47]

If you think about it, from the moment we started using plants as medicine we started to play God. The first patient to be cured by the use of a drug, or operation of some sort, only survived because someone intervened, and did not leave it in the hands of God to decide. It could be argued that carers, as much as doctors, are among those who do this the most...

The only difference between intervening to save a life and intervening to prevent suffering is that one prevents a death, and the other hastens it. Unsurprisingly, fewer people are willing to hasten a death than to prevent one.

I remember there was a case in the USA years ago where a pregnant woman ended up in a coma and the husband decided, on medical advice, to have the child aborted in order to keep his wife alive. Whatever the rights and wrongs of that decision, it was initially blocked by "pro-life" campaigners who had no family connection. Eventually, the case was won by the husband, and the abortion went ahead. I don't know the detail but the wife did eventually recover consciousness and make a partial recovery. Now, there are many questions about all this but my question is: "Who was playing God?"

Unsurprisingly, there's a strong argument for both sides.

[rosemary]

By the way, Rosemary, perhaps it would be a good idea to separate the two discussions. Thank you.

I have read this thread through Jane and to move some posts will mean the rest wont make sense. If you have a suggestion for a heading I will make another thread, or you can do it.
I was going to reply to your post about transplants but will wait till you decide what you want to do re discussions.

[Lazydaisy]

Perhaps leave it as it is then Rosemary, and see how it progresses?I have just had a read through too.

[Maxi]

i feel theres no need at all for a division of threads.let it go along,i say.

i found the transplant thought one which is really,for me,a no brainer.

if we,for a moment,no matter what the reason,no matter how disturbing,place a time-limit,past-its-best,sell by date,on anyone,no matter what value their organs might be to another,we then open that door into the unknown,or the alltoo well known.


i hope we never do that.


Im reminded of a piece,i dont know who wrote it,it was,I think,to do with the Nazi era,and,I found it loud and clear in my mind in this theme of Assisting another to die.

As I recall,to the best of my recollection:


It went:


"They came,first for a family along the street,I did not speak-out.

Then they took a family 3 doors away,again,I was silent.

Two doors from my home,a family were taken,then.I was still silent,I did not speak-out.

Our Freinds next door went next,taken away,I said nothing.


Then they took me,

There was no one left to speak out as I was taken.


In the end,open the door to Assisting Suicide,even just a chink,For the reasons of "Locked-In"
syndrome,for use of organs whatever,then,later,what other very-good reasons might validate our lives being so-ended?.

Like a thread here,once started,and begun,goes everywhich way,so too,any immunity from prosecution for taking anothers life,begins a journey which will take many twists and turns.

how many,oh-so-good reasons then become free of any prosecution?

[charles47]

Pastor Martin Niemoller wrote the passage you were thinking of, Maxi. It goes:

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialist
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

[Maxi]

so very gratefull for the correct text.was even more compelling then i remember.just adds to the power of those words.they seem to transfer to so many situations.historic and contempory.

[Brindleboy123]

A very complex and at times controversial subject, mixed with so many personal emotions and memories. Not sure if the attached link may be of interest:

http://www.gmc-uk.org/guidance/ethical_ ... e/6858.asp

The link takes you to the latest "Treatment and Care towards the end of life" by the General Medical Council.

Bell

[Lazydaisy]

Thank you. I will have a look in a minute.