Free Personal Care - ALL DISCUSSION HERE

[rosemary]

Jenny Owen is the president of the Association of Directors of Adult Social Services

This has been about a relatively small amount of money when we know that very large amounts are needed in order to get the services, care and support that older people should have a clear and unambiguous right to. That is where the true debate lies, and that is where the true debate will have to be held sooner or later. How much of the total bill will come from individuals and their families, and how much from the state? And how much will be wrapped up in the various insurance deals that are raised in the green paper?

At the moment, the drive toward passing the Personal Care at Home Bill, the green paper/white paper ideas and the social care transformation agenda are simply not convincingly synchronised. They need to be – there’s a lot at stake.

[Scally]

Excalibur I don't see any problem with increasing taxes - maybe even doubling them for the wealthy to pay for such things as you mention.
Eun

It might help Eun, though the Tories argue that this would drive capital and enterprise out of the UK and into tax havens. I honestly dont know if that is true - my understanding is that the poor pay far more tax as a percentage of their income than the wealthy, and that is disgraceful. But the scale of the problem is such that even soaking the rich probably wouldnt fund the deficit.

[NanaNana]

Just a thought.. In all these 'looking after the elderly, disabled, ill' discussions that are going on, do any of 'THEM' think further than the Personal Care bits? I mean the bits about cleaning things, or getting people out and about ie into cars for instance, logistics and all that. Looking after the 'elderly, disabled, ill' isn't just about the personal care things is it.
One lot of officialdoms said that they'd pay for someone to do hubby's 'personal care', but wouldn't pay for someone to 'clean the sink or shower', used for his personal care. Or to clean the bedroom where the personal care takes place or wash up the saucepans after they'd cooked his dinner..... it went on and on, because that's classed as 'housework'.

In other words, hubby could be lying (god forbid) in a filthy bedroom and bed, the workers would come in, do his washing and personal care stuff and then leave. That was what we were being told, in no uncertain terms.

We told them to get stuffed.

That's why we handle all the recruitment of helpers???? ourselves.

[g.herschel]

Well said FRAN that is exactly what i have been saying for years you dont have to feed em at one end and clean them up at the other end every single hour of the day to be a carer many elderly disabled just need someone with them of course we cook and clean for them and as the years pass by we will be requiered to do more and more for them as it happens i do work for more than the minimum35 hours but when you claim the allowance they do not take into account many things that the caree needs help and support with and if we are to treat them with dignity , respect and compassion we must take into account more than just FEDING , DRINKING , TOILETING & PERSONAL HYGIENE ....
The old doll can not stay in the house she needs to be out and about in fact some mornings it`s me who wants to "stay in" but she just can not remain at home this started after STAN`S death she must be out of the house which as her carer i am able to provide this service for her but would she get this help in care home or from local authority no way.....

[NanaNana]

Yep, that's what I mean. The 'getting out and about' bit. The 'social element' as 'they' put it. They think that hubby should go to a day centre once a week to give me a break. The LAST place he'd want to go is to sit in a day centre with a load of other people in the same boat. Loads of people enjoy these centres, yes I know, don't shout at me. I'm just saying that for convenience, 'they' would want him to go to one. He really doesn't like being around other disabled people at all and because he can't do anything for himself, he feels that his situation is just compounded by day centres. Due to a lack of agency staff, one Christmas he found himself in an Old People's Home over the holidays and absolutely hated it, he was early-40s and stuck with a load of older people. (before I came along, that was). BUT it was convenient for the authorities to put him there, rather than try and supply a PA over the hols. Would 'they' take my hubby out to the motorbike racing or the car races or to a vintage rally for instance???????? How would they get him into a car? Or one of those buses, his wheelchair is very large and heavy and he hates travelling in it, he doesn't feel safe. He would be stuck at home without me.

[NanaNana]

................ vegetating and getting worse every day.

[rosemary]

video

transcript

[entity]

Web Chat:
Care Services Minister Phil Hope will answer questions on care and support in a web chat at Number10.gov.uk on Tuesday 9 February at 14:30.

Prime Mister Gordon Brown Personal Care at Home Bill is now passing through Parliament and from October 2010. He says that carer and compassion for the most vulnerable people in their final weeks and days will no longer be means tested for personal care. An estimated 280,000 people with the highest (terminal illnesses) free personal care at home.

Clever accounting by the Government.

NHS Continuing Healthcare for people with a terminal illness is free in hospital and all needs are met including medical treatment, nursing care, personal hygiene, food, heating and incontinence pads if needed.

The Law categorically states that NHS Continuing Healthcare for people with a terminal illness is 100% the responsibility of the NHS and must be provided for in any setting.

Under the New National Health Services system the NHS Ministers proposes to remove Attendance Allowance, from everybody over the age of 65 to pay for free personal care for those who have a terminal illness to allow them to die in a place of their choice (this is a Basic Human Right).

This means by taking AA from an individual to pay for their own end-of-life care will save the
DWP and NHS lots of money.
So it’s not free personal care after all!

[coffeeholic]

This makes me feel physically sick.

What the hell are our MPs doing to allow him to get away with this, and why oh why haven't the media pounced on it like a cat on a rat

MPs must sit in the House of Commons asleep, or so busy planning their next coup that they might as well not be there.

Is there a 'table' that can be looked at to see how often they are there?

[Scally]

Is there a 'table' that can be looked at to see how often they are there?

Most of the business of the House is complex, ritualistic and procedural, the really effective MPs only sit when they are really needed. The systems might seem arcane to many, but they do have a purpose. Sitting on benches isnt work as such, and MPs quickly realise this. If you dont understand this, then log on to watch the proceedings live for a week or two, you will soon get the idea. I'm sure they would all love to change it too, but if only it were that easy - in truth they are slaves of the system, not masters of it. Imagine being on a committee with 600 members !!