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Carers UK Forum • Direct Payments : Paying A Family Member To Care ? NO ... But The Jury Is Out And Showing No Sign Of Returning ! - Page 5
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Re: Direct Payments : Paying A Family Member To Care ? NO ... But The Jury Is Out And Showing No Sign Of Returning !

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:46 pm
by Chris From The Gulag
Interesting snippet from the Direct Payments page on Wikipedia :

There is however, no requirement for a person to receive the entirety of their care needs through direct payments, people are free to mix direct payments for some of their needs with traditional methods of care provision. Direct Payments can be used to directly employ a personal assistant (in this case the Direct Payments recipient may legally be classed as an employer with all the responsibilities this entails under UK law) or hire care workers from a private domiciliary care agency. As an alternative to care services, the recipient may be able to use his or her Direct Payments to fund other local services that enable their independence within their own home and community, such as 'meals on wheels', taxi cabs and social clubs.



Exactly what I have been saying all along.

( Note the interesting use of the word MAY ( Not IS and no BE ) ... nothing is ever YES or NO in social care ! )

Re: Direct Payments : Paying A Family Member To Care ? NO ... But The Jury Is Out And Showing No Sign Of Returning !

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:42 pm
by Chris From The Gulag
The water are getting a little more muddied ... what do YOU make of this one ?

Oxfordshire County Council pays £10,000 to mother over carer pay.

A COUNCIL has paid out more than £10,000 to a mother who frequently had to take time off work to care for her adult disabled daughter.


The woman, who is only referred to as ‘Mrs X’ in an official ombudsman report, took Oxfordshire County Council to the local government watchdog over how it had handled the care situation for her daughter, who has a learning disability and suffers from seizures and anxiety.

She also complained the authority had not properly paid her for acting as a carer which had led to 'strain and financial difficulties'.

When the woman complained over missing pay the council said it would consider it if she provided if she provided timesheets.


The ombudsman found the authority had allowed the situation to ‘drift’ and had not been clear enough with either parent or child over how the payments would work.

It went on to say the council could have withdrawn the offer of direct payments if the support plan was not signed but did not.

It added: “The council agreed to pay the care invoices in the interim when Mrs X had not signed the agreement.

"However, in doing this, it failed to clarify with Ms D and Mrs X what information it expected from them, what their responsibilities were and what the council’s role was.This led to confusion over who was actually the employer and what Ms D’s responsibilities were in relation to the personal budget.”

“It also failed to pay Mrs X properly when she acted as Ms D’s personal assistant."


The council agreed to pay the mother £9,100 to acknowledge the support she provided to her daughter between December 2016 and June 2017 at the equivalent of £350 a week.

They also agreed to pay her an additional £1,000 in 'recognition of the additional carer’s strain' the council’s faults caused her.


A spokesman for Oxfordshire County Council said: “We accept the findings made by the ombudsman and we have taken steps to ensure that all the recommended actions are being carried out.”



What is NOT stated is whether the mother was " Employed " as a carer or merely a family carer !

If employed , and NO Carers Allowance paid , fine ... straightforward case of employer / employee.

If NOT , my brain is going into overdrive ...

If only the FULL details were published ???

( NOTE ... LA Ombudsman decision ... not a decision of a Court of Law ! )

Re: Direct Payments : Paying A Family Member To Care ? NO ... But The Jury Is Out And Showing No Sign Of Returning !

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:12 pm
by Melly1
Just had a text from the lady who supports S between college and me being home; asking for proof of her address! I suspect this has become a standard check in my area, to ensure DP aren't being paid to live in family members? Unless anyone can think of another reason? For the first time I had to give all the details of the person we are employing, usually they just check the balance with the payroll provider.

Melly1

Re: Direct Payments : Paying A Family Member To Care ? NO ... But The Jury Is Out And Showing No Sign Of Returning !

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:39 pm
by Chris From The Gulag
Possible check being made by the TaxMan in line with any audit of LA employees / payments to third parties ?

( The intergration of DWP / HM Revenue & Customs records is continuing at a fair old pace ... the DWP purge on carers being
just one aspect we have all witnessed.

How long before DPs are matched ??? )

Re: Direct Payments : Paying A Family Member To Care ? NO ... But The Jury Is Out And Showing No Sign Of Returning !

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:54 pm
by Melly1
The enquiry for proof of address was from the social worker not HMC nor DWP.

Payroll deal with NI and tax.

Melly1

Re: Direct Payments : Paying A Family Member To Care ? NO ... But The Jury Is Out And Showing No Sign Of Returning !

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:06 pm
by Chris From The Gulag
In which case , back to the orginal hypothesis ?

Re: Direct Payments : Paying A Family Member To Care ? NO ... But The Jury Is Out And Showing No Sign Of Returning !

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:15 pm
by MrsAverage
Been trying to find the full report on the Oxfordshire Mums case but seems Ombudsman site is reorganizing :( :( :angry:
The reference number is 17 018 339 should anyone else have more luck or could try again in few days

All I can see so far is the summary which mentions "an exceptional circumstances agreement" so it seems something special was arranged.

From previous cases I think it's usually on cultural or religious grounds or where caree cannot be cared for by any one else

Re: Direct Payments : Paying A Family Member To Care ? NO ... But The Jury Is Out And Showing No Sign Of Returning !

Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:42 pm
by bowlingbun
I'm still battling over this issue with Hampshire. M has been a steam enthusiast all his life. When he was just 4 years old he sat on and drove a scale model of an engine, before he could talk or understand instructions. When we took our steam roller from rally to rally, I would steer with M in a baby sling on my chest, or if he was asleep, in his pram top on the front seat of our Land Rover, being towed by the roller. He never read children's books, preferring picture books of engines he'd seen.
He owns some static engines, kept here at home. When he is at home I don't get a minute's peace, the weekend is entirely his. However, despite claiming "exceptional circumstances" the council refuse to pay me. I'm not on any benefits, happy to pay tax. They say they will pay a support worker, but M needs someone experienced in steam. The usual agency have just appointed a male worker, but he has no understanding of either steam or engineering.
On the other hand, the Ombudsman, in another case, deals with a LA which refused to pay parents more than 48 hours a week, and he said that was wrong, they could have more if they were providing more care. This whole area needs sorting out.

Re: Direct Payments : Paying A Family Member To Care ? NO ... But The Jury Is Out And Showing No Sign Of Returning !

Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:13 am
by Chris From The Gulag
On the other hand, the Ombudsman, in another case, deals with a LA which refused to pay parents more than 48 hours a week, and he said that was wrong, they could have more if they were providing more care. This whole area needs sorting out.



48 hours ... in line with the working week legislation.

Strange how said LA Ombudsman can , appararently , pick and choose to fit their final decisions ?

Re: Direct Payments : Paying A Family Member To Care ? NO ... But The Jury Is Out And Showing No Sign Of Returning !

Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:22 am
by bowlingbun
Having now read the Care Act Statutory Guidance, I realise how useless my Ombudsman was. He refused to look at M's Support Needs Analysis. The Guidance says that authorities using this sort of thing should be "transparent". Hampshire pretends they don't use them, but they do!