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Direct Payments : Paying A Family Member To Care ? NO ... But The Jury Is Out And Showing No Sign Of Returning ! - Page 3 - Carers UK Forum

Direct Payments : Paying A Family Member To Care ? NO ... But The Jury Is Out And Showing No Sign Of Returning !

Share information, support and advice on all aspects of caring.
68 posts
I have personal experience of managing Direct Payments.
The most important thing is to make sure that someone else is managing the day to day administration of the funds, and that the cost of this is paid for by the council.
My son has learning difficulties, and my eldest son was a PA for him at weekends, when I was disabled. Originally my son was self employed, but later he started working full time for someone else. A "payroll service" was used and they dealt directly with HMRC, the PA work was an official second job.
Thanks Chris for highlighting this issue relating to Direct Payments. I've passed it onto Carers UK's Policy and Public Affairs team and will let you know if we can provide any further clarification on this.

As we don't have time to read every post made on the forum, we may miss some requests for feedback on particular issues. If you'd like a response from Carers UK on other issues you raise, please can you send me a private message with a link to the post.

Michael
Thanks Michael ... at least a few readers will sleep a little easier in the beds.

Don't lose track of that thread's ugly sister ... AA and PIP ... related but different legal angle ... benefits rather than payments :

https://www.carersuk.org/forum/support- ... arer-33078

Possibly doubled the number of family carers involved ... low millions.

Further requests for threads to be kicked upstairs ?

Green Paper threads / shortage projected in care worker thread ( Government plan to encourage more carers to juggle work with caring ) ... ones to keep an eye on ... particularly as CUK policy tends to disagree with what we are seeing for ourselves on a daily basis.

Tempting but ... time for upstairs to come down to the lower decks me , and quite a few other inmates , think.

A return to the good old days ... of sorts ... when Carers UK actually interacted with forum posters ... go back in the archives to see the relationship first hand.

Almost like having an additional floor at Great Dover Street , full of forum posters and readers ... and the time and effort we saved CUK ... all for free , just having the interests of fellow family / kinship carers as our goal.

As mentioned before ... the CUK Advice Team ... how many would be needed WITHOUT us ?

Free labour ... bountiful in CarerLand ?

After all , how will Carers UK KNOW what's going on in Carerland if they DON'T read the forum !!!

Even the number ... 6.5 million quoted in a very recent press release ... 7.8 million quoted by Age UK more than a month go ... after research involving the Joseph Rowntree Foundation.
Having put together the 5 concerns earlier ... for both readers and CUK ... a brief summary of what's involved.

Ladies and gentlemen ... and CUK .... let me introduce the players :
1. LAs ( Direct Payments to family members via the Care Act " Loophole " ) ... DWP ( Paying of AA & PIP ) ... HM Revenue & Customs ( Collector of taxes on income amongst other functions ).

( Forum reports of some LAs turing a blind eye and dishing out DPs will no instructions as to their use beyond the lump sum. )

2. Law ... Care Act and Employment ... CA bit posted very early on ... the relevant sections constituting the " Loophole. "

( DPs paid to a family member ... CA ceases as said family member is now classified as a worker ... DWP not interested ? )



As it reads from deductions and conclusions from information already provided , there are two conflicts :


A. Care Act v. Employment law ?

B. Income passing from caree to carer ... untaxed at source but taxable on receipt by the caree ... DWP may turn a blind eye but ... The Taxman / Taxwoman ?

( Some figures ... assume 2 million carees / carers ... £ 40 per week passes over untaxed ... that's £ 4.16 BILLION per annum ... The Taxman / Taxwoman not interested ?

Similarly , any carers also claiming income related benefits ... DWP not interested ? )



A satisfactory outcome would be agreement between all three " Agencies " on all five concerns and ... A CLEAR AND CONCISE BLUEPRINT FOR ALL CARERS AND CAREES TO OBSERVE.

Chances of that ?

Unknown ... need for a legal eagle to look at the position of all three on each concern.

Variations between England / Scotland / Wales / Northern ireland ?

Unknown ... could be real fun if there was any conflict ?

Betting ?

Local bookies split but ... different answers as each Agency have their blinkers on ... slight favourite.

Whatever.

In CarerLand , ask what appears to be a simple question and just look what's involved in providing an answer ... an answer that satisfies more than one Agency , each with their own agendas.
Pleased to record a mini explosion in " Reads " ... over 1,200 since kicking this Issue upstairs.

Not a nice one for CUK ... complicated , and involves more than one Government agency.

Having said that , it does NOT excuse inaction for a decade ... CUK had access to same information posted on this thread as I had ... and yet they did nothing until being prompted.

Resources ?

Swop mine ... just me ... for CUK's ?

A problem that's been out there for close on a decade.

Still , beyond important for any family / kinship carers directed affected by it.

Diarise forward.
Reply received from the DWP , and posted on the AA / PIP thread ... CUK advised :

https://www.carersuk.org/forum/support- ... arer-33078

A reply which is no reply ... no further forward as I type.
A nudge to get this Issue back into the frame for all readers.
I had a chuckle at the notion of benefits and "other" support being pulled from carers taken on the payroll by their caree's via direct payments/health budgets etc because frankly.. what support? Get none. if not for careful balancing of the books when times were a little better I'd be homeless or worse by now

Worse case scenario I would lose carers allowance and possibly have to pay a little more council tax due to rise in income but would still be better off otherwise on the payroll.. not to mention being able to fill the ever growing gap in my CV with an actual paid position because as we all know 100+ hour a week unpaid carer isn't a real job to them and we are all dossers/scroungers or whatever label the government/papers/television is sticking on us that particular day/week/cycle of the moon/rotation of the planets etc :)

Same old story they are happy to kill us but not pay us while we're around.

Counts to 10
Don't chuckle for too long.

If ... and a big IF ... the DWP could get around the Employment laws , Direct Payments would be paid to our caree ( Many losing out as means tested ) and , in turn , they would " Employ " a family member to care ... thus ending caring as we know it.

Instead of continuing complaning to the DWP over the level of Carers Allowance , any family / kinship carer would now have to " Negotiate " with their employer ... their caree !

Certainly will have one huge advantage ... no more eligibilty criteria for CA ... that will be consigned to history.

It WAS muted in the build up to 2009 but , once given further thought , ditched way down the line by the DWP ( CarerWatch archives confirm this. )

Might be something in the forthcoming Green Paper but ... Employment law ... would need to create a new class for " Family / kinship carers " ... including no minimum wage ... in essence , a second class worker with restricted rights when compared to an ordinary worker.

LAs won't be happy ... deprevation of assets ... monies flowing out to the carer ... might be a loophole for some ... ssssh , you did NOT learn that from me !

( Yet another nice little earner becomes a freebie ? )

For once , a faint possibility that a few trade unionists would be on our side ... until their hierachies point out that one family / kinship carer means one less job for a paid care worker ... possibly an union member.

Solve that and there WILL BE a whole new ball game !

In a way , would also cure the AA / PIP problem ... tempting ... if I were reading this from the Doleman's liar ... with a possible nod from the Taxman as well.

" Country Joe " would be smiling ... remove the law , remove the problem ... simples ... eh , comrade ?
Time to keep this one in mind given the potential repercussions.
68 posts