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Direct Payments ? Employing Anyone For Sleepovers ? BEWARE : Court Case : Ruling / Fallout / Changes ! - Page 5 - Carers UK Forum

Direct Payments ? Employing Anyone For Sleepovers ? BEWARE : Court Case : Ruling / Fallout / Changes !

Share information, support and advice on all aspects of caring.
67 posts
Exclusion from " Society " is par for the course in both CarerLand and Careeland.

On the subject of Sleepovers , no one bats an eye lid when carers naturally " Sleepover " with their carees.

Even Unite has shown no interest ... family carers are not card carrying members.

Ever since the very first Invalid Care Act some 4 decades ago , carers' " Rights " have diminished as if everyone else did not want to upset THAT cosy arrangement of saving the taxpayers any amout north of £ 132 billion per annum.

In that respect , carers are , indeed , on their one ... no organisation currently existing has either the Will or power to take on the System.

Forthcoming Carers Strategy ? Best to write that off as bad news as we did , in advance , almost a decade ago.

Announcements will be made without any consultations with carers directly , and all and sundry will applaud as we sink further into the mire.

We will all get the usual pats on the head whilst the supporting circus will breathe a sigh of relief as they will still be in business for years to come ... keeping an eye , through telescopes , on those , without weapons , trying to hold the front line.

Hyprocity at it's finest ?
Thanks for this thread. I have been working in care since 2012. My disabled employer pays us via direct payments. I reported my employer to the HMRC in April last year. It is a year later and finally 21 employees are going to be paid 6 years' worth of sleeping nights' back pay. £3.50 per hour or £35 for the 10 hours we did not sleep for, nor was the time our own (we were on call so could be woken at any point to do anything during the night) is a pittance! We do all the hard work for people's relatives and are expected to do our jobs "for the love of it". How many tax payers who will be funding our shortfall do their job for that reason? Oh yes not many if any, because most of them are paid the living wage and above!

All the difficult conversations, meetings, emails and phone calls paid off. Especially happy for one colleague who is going through a really rough/tough patch who is owed £14000.

All those defending charities and employers who pay their workers below minimum or living wage need a reality check. They obviously have not been affected directly. And people wonder why the care industry has been in dire straits for a very long time! Justice has been served in our case. I hope many more carers get what they are worth. About time too.

An ironic and chronic argument myself and my colleagues had was this: if the council are not giving carees enough money for their care package then how come agency bills (yes agency care workers covered shifts we could not do, Christmas week coming to a neat £5000 on its own!) could be paid with direct payments at £18 per hour. 5 times the rate we were paid and expected to work for/accept.
Unlike the Carers UK " News " section , the forum News section is precisely what's on the label.

Quite often , the " Private Eye " type ones are the most revealing as to events affecting us in CarerLand.

Many may be a little too " Near the knuckle " for Carers UK to publish ... in their capacity as a " Charity. "

No such restrictions are in place on the forum ... yet ?

What I post is news affecting many carers in Carerland ... mainly on the basic essentials to be able to survive / live ... food / health / energy / housing / transport / support etc. ... avoiding the " Political " ones as best I can ... without fear or favour.

This thread ?

Nobody involved can escape criticism ... Government / LAs / supporting organisations ... all at fault.

My fear is for the " Innocent " individual carees who may be caught up in this !!!
Colin_1705 wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:14 pm
It is likely that there will be negotions between UNISON and employers to try to reach a ettlement, may take years.
Employers have 24 months from time of accepting the voluntary self assessment for underpayment. My employer has until 2019 to send back forms/calculations. And then only if reported as being in violation. The HMRC do not have a crystal ball.
When the outcome of those " Discussions " are know , I trust that UNISON will use some common sense and NOT persue any individual carees for breaching the Employment laws ?

A safe bet to say that some , who may have fallen foul , might had been former , or current , members of Unison ?

There again , the law is the Law , and should be the same for all offenders ???
Colin_1705 wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:07 am
Please do not WRONGLY blame me cap when the fault may lie with HMRC. :-???
MENCAP are the main reason for the government intervention ( as well as thousands of personal assistants in care coming forward about abysmal pay). Employing thousands of people yet no clue as to employment law and minimum wage or living wage rates? Please? Did the celebrities endorse that shameful ad campaign of theirs (poor clueless us - we provide such a good service but pay our employees less than minimum wage) for free?
Whilst many family carers will have some sympathy for care workers not being paid the minimum wage , somewhat ironic when considering the terms and conditions on which we are expected to care ... a minimum of 35 hours , many clocking in excess of 100 hours ... for the equivalent of 8 hours and a few minutes at the minimum wage ... many cannot even claim Carers Allowance , so said labour is provided free.

Except , of course , family carers do not provide " Labour " ... that really would open up a large can of worms ?

Sure , underpaid care workers have a case ... nobody disputes that ... but , pales into insignificance when compared with ours ?
Chris From The Gulag wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:48 pm
Whilst many family carers will have some sympathy for care workers not being paid the minimum wage , somewhat ironic when considering the terms and conditions on which we are expected to care ... a minimum of 35 hours , many clocking in excess of 100 hours ... for the equivalent of 8 hours and a few minutes at the minimum wage ... many cannot even claim Carers Allowance , so said labour is provided free.

Except , of course , family carers do not provide " Labour " ... that really would open up a large can of worms ?

Sure , underpaid care workers have a case ... nobody disputes that ... but , pales in significance when compared with ours ?
Sure it does but again this all goes back to government cuts, etc. I guess if you are not working because of caring for a family member, the state is supporting you with benefits. Same as if you are unemployed for any other reason. Not saying the amounts are fair. It is what it is.

Anyway the thread title pertains to paid carers and the people they care for, no?
Being unemployed is a choice ... a difficult one but nevertheless , a choice.

Family carers also have a " Choice " ( Even our own supporting organisations still believe that to be the case ) ... to care or not to care ... but ... what choice is there in reality ?

The harsh reality is quite simple ... if many reading this post were to literally stop caring ... how many carees would be dead within a week / month ?

Many carers have carees who also " Employ " care workers , through Direct Payments , to provide extra support.

As for the " Threat " from the sleepover debacle , THAT was my main concern ... individual carees , and their carers , being caught up in it.

Most readers are family carers , a few their carees ... and would probably see the danger from their perspective.

The big boys and girls ... charities providing the service , unions representing the paid care workers ... were a secondary consideration ... both sectors are big enough to sort out the problem.

Given that DPs have been with us for a decade , it has taken both sectors years to see the problem !!!

Individual carees acting on , most probably , incomplete advice from their LAs when accepting DPs , do NOT have any represention , nor would any layman expect them to have a full working knowlege of Employment Law.
Chris From The Gulag wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:14 pm
Being unemployed is a choice ... a difficult one but nevertheless , a choice.

Family carers also have a " Choice " ( Even our own supporting organisations still believe that to be the case ) ... to care or not to care ... but ... what choice is there in reality ?

The harsh reality is quite simple ... if many reading this post were to literally stop caring ... how many carees would be dead within a week / month ?

Many carers have carees who also " Employ " care workers , through Direct Payments , to provide extra support.

As for the " Threat " from the sleepover debacle , THAT was my main concern ... individual carees , and their carers , being caught up in it.

Most readers are family carers , a few their carees ... and would probably see the danger from their perspective.

The big boys and girls ... charities providing the service , unions representing the paid care workers ... were a secondary consideration ... both sectors are big enough to sort out the problem.

Given that DPs have been with us for a decade , it has taken both sectors years to see the problem !!!

Individual carees acting on , most probably , incomplete advice from their LAs when accepting DPs , do NOT have any represention , nor would any layman expect them to have a full working knowlege of Employment Law.
Both my carers have been on courses about pensions, tax and employment law. Their direct payment support provides personal and payroll support. There are 7 people employed in total and they also have employer's liability insurance. Just as we as carers have a duty of care our employer has the same duty and responsibility in return. They have all the handbooks in their filing system so for individulas and/or their support to play dumb is unacceptable. My colleagues and I have been battling this nonsense since day one!

Direct payments are not foisted on one and they are provided with advice and opportunity to ask questions from the outset. Besides my caree/employer has parental and paid for personal support in employment issues.

Also what danger? There is no naming and shaming, no fines and 2 years to sort calculations out. Where does the money come from to pay the back pay? Not the carees pocket, the local council's who are funded by the govenment. As for my carees unpaid carer, her mother, she is in no danger of anything. Have you seen the sums of money that some of these carees are given by the government?
67 posts