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Desperate for advice please - Page 2 - Carers UK Forum

Desperate for advice please

Share information, support and advice on all aspects of caring.
How are the social workers getting access to your parents in the first place?? Who let them in? Why are they involved at all?

My MIL was self funding in her residential care home and no social worker ever went near her! There was no need for them to stick their noses in! I paid her fees out of the joint account she'd set up with me, and I liaised with the care manager and nursing staff to ensure my MIL had her needs met OK. She got a little funding from the NHS via Continuing Health Care, and I was involved in those meetings with the nice-but-clearly-exhausted (!) former nurse who was the NHS CHC lady for that particular care home. A care home member of staff sat in as well.

I just don't see what business it is of the social workers in the first place???

As for whether or not your parents do or do not have mental capacity, again, that is the decision surely of their GP! The care home will now be providing the GP for all the residents, and if the GP says they don't have capacity in all respects and their memory is shot to pieces and they are 'not responsibile' for what they are saying, again, that should trump whatever rubbish the social workers are coming up with!

I really don't see why the social workers are so fussed about this, considering your parents are self funding. The ONLY persuasive reason other than 'busy-bodying' (!) is if indeed they fear th self-fundin will run out and the LA will have to pay the fees - so that's why the SW are desperately trying to ship your parents 'back home' into another LA area!!!!!!!!!!!

Whatever you do, TRY to 'stay calm' with the social works (hard, I know, as they will use any non-calm behaviour on YOUR part to label you 'difficult' or 'obstreperous' etc etc. Gruelling though it is, you have to work 'with' the wretched system, play them at their own game, and slither around as slimily as they do. Or, alas, they will 'win'.
Many thanks for all of your useful replies.

I agree with you and now I am wondering if the main reason behind all this is that Social Services are worried they will have to pick up all the funding once all the money from the house has been spent on care home fees.

I am invited to a Safeguarding meeting with social services next Tuesday. They have asked to see mum and dads bank statement and a spreadsheet I have showing all of there savings. Can not think why they want to see this unless they think I have something to hide or they want to see how much funding they have.

With your comments it makes sense why they are asking. I am very happy to provide this as I have nothing to hide and do not want more agro if by law they can demand this information. They will see mum and dad have enough savings to pay there home fees for about fourteen years, so hopefully they will see that and leave me alone.

Sorry two more questions spring to mind. We have used the power of attorney to sell the house, we are just waiting for contracts to exchange any time now.

Can I be made to stop the sale?

This will cost more wasted money compensating the buyer and paying legal fees to estate agents and solicitors.

Can they take power of attorney off me eventhough there is no dishonesty involved.

It will break my heart if I walk away from mum and dad but it is interesting to see your comment that I can do so legally. I am at the point where I can not do anymore and now need to consider my health.

In answer to the last person. I regret now asking for a continuing healthcare assessment. This what caused SS to get involved, up to that point no one had met them or new they were there.
Ron, I know you said you can't afford legal fees, but I do, do, do urge you to get legal guidance on what you HAVE to do in respect of nosy parker SS, and what you can legally them to do by way of the 'eff off' rule!

Because, to my mind, wanting to see your parents' bank statements etc is NONE OF THEIR DAMN BUSINESS!!!!!!!

If your parents can truly afford 14 years of residential care for the two of them, that is something like AT LEAST £70,000 a YEAR (because you don't get residential care for less than a hundred pounds a DAY per person!) which means they must have a house worth close to a MILLION POUNDS!!!!!!!/*

Others here may confirm this, but IF you are using your parents' money to pay LEGAL FEES ON THEIR BEHALF (ie, to keep nosy parker SS off their case!), then I would argue that is PERFECTLY JUSTIFIED.

(ie, if YOU can't afford legal fees, THEY can. And you are ONLY doing this for THEIR benefit - as a dutiful son with PoA!)

Please check out your legal rights, and ideally hand the whole wretched matter over to lawyers to tell the SS where to get off etc!

I can't believe you are putting up with this! DO NOT cooperate with SS unless you are LEGALLY OBLIGED TOO.

I sense, alas, you are woefully inexpericned (and clearly totally exhausted!) in the hard truths about caring for parents, if you didn't know you have NO obligation to lift a finger for them. Legally, you can let them die in a gutter if you wanted. NONE of us has ANY legal responsibility for another human being if their are not our children and still minors! (And even then we can reject them and put them into care!)
PS =- at the very, very least, please please email the team of experts at Carers UK itself (quicker than phoning as the help line is usually busy), and put it to them whether you have to speak to Social Workers AT ALL!!!!!!

Why not simply tell them at the moment you can't make that meeting, to give yourself more time.

IF it is legally none of their damn business, do NOT let them get involved any further, and damn well don't let them know about your parents' finances. NOT THEIR BUSINESS!
PPS - in respect of whether you are entitled to sell your parents' house, having PoA for them, I would assume 'yes' but for sure your conveyancing lawyer will know! They CANNOT process a sale that is 'illegal', so they will know for sure if you are legally entitled to complete this sale. That they know already you are doing so as PoA, must argue that it is PERFECTLY LEGAL.

Social Services have NO RIGHT to demand to see the bank statements etc. as you have POA, no authority to stop the sale of the house. The only power they have over you is the power you let them have. They are "exceeding their authority" I'm sure.

I would insist that the meeting to be postponed until such time as you can arrange for a lawyer to represent mum and dad to attend the meeting.
Hi Jenny
You have reassured me and at my low point that's what I needed. So pleased I found this site you are all extremely helpful.

I will attend the meeting on Tuesday as I do not want them to interpret me not going as not being interested. I will not disclose mum and dads assets after your advice, I thought it wrong but did not want to start off more wrangling if they could make me .

Than you.
Play them at their own game!!

As you have POA you are required to treat all matters concerning your parents money as confidential, to disclose such information would be negligent on your part!!
I am guessing if there is a substantial property involved that parents savings may exceed £26k in a bank and if so I believe SS can be told to mind their own business. They can only ask for a financial assessment when savings get near or are expected to soon get near this limit.

For peace of mind and brain rest if the savings from the property sale will last as long as 14 years and this is reasonably going to be sufficient for your parents life expectancy then it may be easier just to show them approx details of expected sale together with your POA . They will have the address so could make a reasonable estimation of value with a quick google anyway. I know it is paidful to have to divulge parents finances but there seems to be no reaso to worry other than the stress of being badgered and fearing you are in the wrong. It may just be easier to show them that money is readily available and that you hold POA- for a quiet night's peaceful sleep.
If you are comfortably off and will be covering all expected fees privatrely then why line the pockets of solicitors? (Gosh I am sounding so much like my dad).
Ron, if you do go to the meeting - and I agree with BB that you should postpone it until you have taken legal advice on behalf of your parents - then tell them right at the outset this if for YOUR information only.

Do not give THEM any! I like BB's recommendation that you tell them you are acting on behalf of your parents as PoA and will need to check with your parents' lawyers (no matter you haven't instructed them - why should SS know that?) as to what you are entitled to say. Be polite but adamant.

Say you are there to listen to what SS have to say, and will bear it in mind when you seek legal opinion on your parents finances and circumstances.

'Smile and be civil' - and say NOTHING.

If they ask for information, eg, how much money your parents have, tell them 'I will need to consult their lawyers to see what, as their PoA, I am entitled to disclose, and will get back to you with their answer in due course'.

Just keep repeating that. Don't be 'difficult' or 'obstreperous' - just smile and be civil, and say you will be back in touch when you know what you can legally disclose.

You can ask SS WHY they want to know this information.

Personally, I wouldn't even give them the address of your parents house, or tell them anything, or the state of play on the conveyancing or sale. Keep repeating 'I must check with my parent's lawyers before I disclose any private information to others.'

Don't believe ANYTHING the SS may tell you at the meeting. Plenty of folk here on the forum KNOW from their own experience that social workers DO get it wrong sometimes, and simply 'do not know' the regulations and the law.

Also, and this is a really good tactic as well as being of real practical use, go into the meeting with an A 4 pad and write down EVERYTHIGN they say, and ask them, quite deliberately, to repeat something or clarify something. Let them SEE you are writin it all down (They won't like it, I can tell you!)

If they object, again, you smile and be civil, and say you need to make sure you have understood their concerns accurately, so that you can discuss them with your parent's lawyers.

Oh, you don't have to give SS the NAMES of any lawyers at all - none of their business at this stage.