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Debate on the Care and Support Green Paper - Page 4 - Carers UK Forum

Debate on the Care and Support Green Paper

Share information, support and advice on all aspects of caring.
62 posts
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I see I am not the only one who says pay for it out of tax and NI
Perhaps a hypothecated contribution through either Income Tax or NI to cover the cost of the NHS and social care systems to ensure that the taxpayer does not see his funding diverted to other government priorities.

The reality is that if as, the government states, funding social care is the responsibility of every member of society there can be no fairer way than all contributing and all receiving according to need, wasn't that one of the founding principles of the Welfare State?
The reality is that the government do not want to be seen as putting up tax or NI and NI was originally put in place to pay for what we are now discussing. There are also gaps in the logic behind the estimated need. Where it is true to say that there will be more people over retirement age at 60/65 they forget to mention that the retirement age bar has been moved. Also the state of health of people over 60 is based on old statistics and ignores the government funded drive for better health in the upper age bracket. Personally this Green paper has to be one of the worst thought out and wooded ones that I have ever had the misfortune to read and god knows I have read and contributed to enough of them.
Having just got to pg.32 para 3 of the document Image I am a slow reader, One question could be Matt,
if this is passed and it is a big if at what point would the above allowance be discontinued?
As Attendance Allowance is National, and this green paper involves proposals for England only,how will that be resolved?

Also, my Dad pays his own way in the Home he lives in, but does have Attendance Allowance. He can afford to do without it if he has to and use more savings, but what about people who need that little top up to stay in a Home of their choice?There must be plenty of people who will not welcome the attentions of Social services. My next door neighbour hated it when she came home after a stroke, and I have been there when they have phoned her, and heard them on the phone.They speak as though she is a five year old. She has to have some input from them for her few care needs,but she has all her faculties, so why don't they treat her with respect?

I am anxious for so many if Social Services become more involved.
Page 104:
The way forward
Whatever the outcome of the consultation, we want to ensure that people receiving any of the relevant benefits at the time of reform would continue to receive an equivalent level of support and protection under a new and better care and support system.
Any changes to the care and support system in England that integrate some disability benefits funding would affect the devolved administrations in Scotland and Wales, and Northern Ireland may also choose to adopt the new care and support system. We will work closely with all three devolved administrations to reach a shared view on how to ensure the best possible outcomes for all people in the UK.
Thank you.
A.A. as i see it is safe for those who have it now but future claimants may not be entitled to the A.A. they can not stop the A.A. untill the government are also paying for the residential social care they have said each elderly disabled person will have to pay about £20-000 total via insurance or from their estate after death but if the A.A. was removed to help fund they will pay much more than £20-000 .
Each household has had to "PAY" £3-000 for the bail out of the banks if they can bail our fat cat bankers why cant they find a couple of billion quid to pay for something that the electorate want scrap trident sell off the B.B.C.
Page 104:
The way forward
Whatever the outcome of the consultation, we want to ensure that people receiving any of the relevant benefits at the time of reform would continue to receive an equivalent level of support and protection under a new and better care and support system.
Any changes to the care and support system in England that integrate some disability benefits funding would affect the devolved administrations in Scotland and Wales, and Northern Ireland may also choose to adopt the new care and support system. We will work closely with all three devolved administrations to reach a shared view on how to ensure the best possible outcomes for all people in the UK.
this is very strange indeed are they saying if a benefit was removed it would be replaced with an "equivalent level of support and protection from a care and support system "
if the attendance allowance was removed £280 per month just what will the care and support system offer many elderly disabled use the attendance allowance for many things as we cant use public transport we use some of ours for diesel on average £150 a month ( it`s true) also the old doll has decided to help me therefore some of the attendance allowance is in a way for my benefit so how will the care and support system help us .

lazydaisy is right the whole point of the green paper is to stop home owners from selling their homes to fund residential social care but when she says her dad can manage without the attendance allowance but what about those who need the attendance allowance to top up if we did not have the attendance allowance we could not stay within our home we could not afford it as i have said elswhere this cut in income would result in the old oll going into social care earlier than she needs to at an extra cost to the state .

retirement age it has been suggested that the retirement age be raised to 70 also many final salary pension plans are to be romoved so many will retire with even less cash available to them for their old age and to be asked to pay a care tax is a joke .

one thing that does worry me is the pressure that may be put on many elderly disabled just this week we have had one terminally ill lady who decided to take advantage of the assisted suicide but her husband who was not terminally ill also decided to take his own life iam against suicide as many of us are but if others chose that route i wont condemn them but if we do not sort out these problems i wonder how many elderly disabled will just decide to end it all when you are under intense pressure sometimes you look for the "easy way out"
It really flies in the face of the oft-quoted intention of government to promote independence and choice, the replacement of AA will force people to access predefined services via social services, even Individual Budgets have restrictions on how they can be used and every penny has to be accounted for, with AA there are no such restrictions and the individual in receipt of it does not have to account for or justify expenditure.

If the funding of AA is redirected to LAs I have little doubt that the promise that those already in receipt of AA will eventually also see it redirected, the government has a history of broken early promises. This will hit the poorest carers hardest, not only will their caree lose AA but they will lose CA and the premiums available through IS and GPC. This again flies in the face of the government's intention that families should provide care, who will be able to afford to give up work to care without financial support albeit inadequate?

I have not had time to read the whole consultation document but, from what I have had time to read, I agree with peteraf, it is extremely badly thought out, based on assumptions which cannot be substantiated and short on real detail, I suspect, based on previous experience of the way in which the government handles unpalatable legislation, that the green paper will lead to a Bill which is equally short on detail and which gives the Secretary of State power to further legislate and regulate, the detail becoming apparent through Statutory Instruments and regulation once the Bill is passed.
I don’t bet but I would give odds on that this green paper drags on for a bit leading to a long gap to a white paper then a long gap and then RIP and start again. In the meantime it seems to be having the effect of all care parties defending their corner and fighting over the pattern on the wall paper before even building the house. What we should be doing is demanding that all options are on the table for discussion and not just the very limited choice that is the government favourite.
62 posts