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Carers UK Forum • Capacity again
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Capacity again

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:29 pm
by Henrys Cat
Sigh…

Dad has been out of hospital exactly one week and in the 24 hours before he was released he was fitted with a catheter and nobody knows why. He was very poorly for a couple of days but then rallied a bit and even managed a sandwich Saturday night. I’ve been away moving out of a house in Wales so this morning is the first time I’ve seen him since last Saturday.

He’s totally delirious, urine is positive for infection, he’s got a sticky red eye and his mouth is bright red. He’s barely drinking and not eating. He’s lost 18kg in 6 months.

While this has been going on as you know we’ve been selling his house. The other owner has threatened litigation and accidentally discovered that my power of attorney is useless as it’s a trust property (we always thought Dad was still the owner of his share but he signed into the trust). If they can prove he doesn’t have capacity then they take over completely. It might be a moot point now as he may not survive long enough for an assessment but I wondered if anyone could provide any good websites about this process please? I’m desperately trying to get hold of his solicitor to assist, especially as he didn’t flag this power of attorney issue up when we sought advise from him.

The hospital say that his confusion is as a result of the infections and could take weeks to get over but obviously we can’t wait to see. I’m really struggling to keep breathing myself right now.

Re: Capacity again

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:12 pm
by Breezey
It sounds like you need to have a good scream henryscat.

I hope your dad starts getting some equilibrium and return to himself from the infection soon, I can't imagine how awful it was to return and find your father in such a way.

I don't have any advice for you, the buyers are being very insensitive in my view.
I can appreciated your predicament to some extent.
I was selling a house when my dad was dying of cancer, the buyer was being a total pain, so I told the estate agent to tell them my dad was dying of cancer so I have bigger things on my plate and if they keep on with their nonsense I will withdraw from the sale and go back on the market. It went quiet.

Re: Capacity again

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:34 pm
by thara_22071
Heya.

My first piece of advice is to make brief summary notes. Do some proper research as well in any case. Keep two or three extra copies of all medical records and legal documents in any situation. I love to do “boring” paperwork and routinely like to store all of it in big colourful reference folders in my own mini office at home as well. I even have a paperwork hour each week.

Obtain some more paper copies of all records and relevant paperwork to date from his doctors etc and so on. Shred all and any unwanted stuff each week. You can even order cheap folders from Amazon or purchase a few different ones in certain high street shops in addition. I recommend going into WHSmith particularly here. This is where I tend to get mine from.

Request a care needs assessment. Good luck.

Re: Capacity again

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:30 pm
by Henrys Cat
I doubt we'd get a care needs assessment now, especially as he's been fast tracked for CHC finally. If he survives more than 6 weeks then it will have to be reviewed and possibly withdrawn. He was pretty lucid today, it varies as if he is a different person from one day to the next, sometimes within the same day. I could understand the change if he had had his antibiotics but I left at lunchtime and they were still waiting for them.

Its not the buyers that are the issue, its the other owners of the house (they and Dad have 50% each). Dad's capacity (as far as I'm concerned anyway) fluctuates so much but without any pattern that I don't know how to give him the best chance of proving he does understand and / or that he does want me to act for him. If they come out twice and both times he's shouting 'hand me my top hat!' or thinking he's a gun fighter in the war then they're not going to come back. It doesn't help that he's blind and pretty much deaf too but he can't seem to hear anything that doesn't fit with his delusions when he has them anyway so he's totally unreachable. Knowing our luck he will be totally lucid either side of their assessment and then deep in hallucinations while they're there.

Re: Capacity again

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:52 pm
by Melly1
Hi Henry's cat,
difficult one with fluctuating mental capacity, especially as it doesn't have any pattern to it.

Are you totally moved out of the Wales house now?

You have so much going on.

Sorry I don't have any advice, this is out of my experience.

You could try CAB?

Melly1

Re: Capacity again

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:38 pm
by thara_22071
Henrys Cat wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:30 pm
I doubt we'd get a care needs assessment now, especially as he's been fast tracked for CHC finally. If he survives more than 6 weeks then it will have to be reviewed and possibly withdrawn. He was pretty lucid today, it varies as if he is a different person from one day to the next, sometimes within the same day. I could understand the change if he had had his antibiotics but I left at lunchtime and they were still waiting for them.

Its not the buyers that are the issue, its the other owners of the house (they and Dad have 50% each). Dad's capacity (as far as I'm concerned anyway) fluctuates so much but without any pattern that I don't know how to give him the best chance of proving he does understand and / or that he does want me to act for him. If they come out twice and both times he's shouting 'hand me my top hat!' or thinking he's a gun fighter in the war then they're not going to come back. It doesn't help that he's blind and pretty much deaf too but he can't seem to hear anything that doesn't fit with his delusions when he has them anyway so he's totally unreachable. Knowing our luck he will be totally lucid either side of their assessment and then deep in hallucinations while they're there.
Find a lawyer. Apply for POA as this is the time to do so.

Re: Capacity again

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:17 pm
by bowlingbun
Thara, someone who lacks mental capacity is unable to grant someone else Power of Attorney. The other problem is that it may take weeks or months to be processed. The system changed some years ago. When mum did hers, whist in hospital with a badly broken leg that narrowly avoided being amputated, I could use it immediately.

Re: Capacity again

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:32 am
by Charles_2112
In a situation where someone already lacks capacity, there is no access to Power of Attorney not already granted. The only choice is a Deputyship under the Court of Protection. That's a lengthy process and involves a large number of people - which is why it can take months, ignoring any backlog issues - currently it's around 4-6 months, and it has been a lot longer. Without Deputyship, it requires a Best Interests decision involving professionals and family involved in care. In those circumstances, family members must be heard, but are not necessarily going to get the decisions they feel are right for their loved one.

The important issue is to ensure your views are recorded. That way, if they're ignored you have redress, and if they're on record, they're more likely to be listened to. Which is more important.

Re: Capacity again

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:39 pm
by Henrys Cat
Thanks all.

I've been searching around and I can find plenty of information on capacity for health and welfare issues but nothing about financial and property matters. With health decisions I can understand who would be involved if a decision needed to be made fairly quickly, and indeed it happened last week with the advance directive. The nursing home manager and GP decided that it wouldn't be in Dad's best interests to return to hospital. The manager had spoken with myself and my brother and we were both in agreement but the GP never spoke to me directly so he only has the word of the manager. They haven't asked Dad what he wants because at the time of the conversation he couldn't even respond. I really hope that this doesn't count against him as proof that he has been shown not to have capacity.

With care etc it's usually an either / or decision and a one off, with finance and property it's more nuanced. Who would be there for that decision? My main concern is that I won't be allowed to attend and it will just be the solicitor and a rep from the care home who doesn't understand that Dad lacks basic education and everything needs to be VERY simple at the best of times. He might easily agree to me acting on his behalf or selling the house but he couldn't complete the forms. If they ask him if they want me to take over as trustee from him (so there is still a representative for him as well as the other side) he would agree but if they have to explain it he couldn't take it in and might say something daft. If it then comes down to a best interests decision, who makes that call? Is making sure he has a representative enough to show that it is in his best interests for me to continue?

It's all so out of control and I feel so panicked and tight chested. I hate it.

Re: Capacity again

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:50 pm
by bowlingbun
HUGS. It's all so incredibly stressful. I wish we could find a suitable solution.