Benefit cheats?

[charles47]

The level of fraud in this country and the relative activity to deal with it is to say the least interesting.

Benefit fraud estimates from the government suggest that it stands at £800-900 million, although this figure includes DWP overpayments where it was the DWP's fault! Either way, this counts as something less than 0.5% of the overall benefit figures.

The government also tells us that around £3 BILLION in benefits is not being claimed. So they are making on the deal.

Which gets the publicity and effort?

Tax fraud stands at around £27 BILLION - according to government figures - and others have suggested it is much more - around £42 billion a year.

Which fraud gets the effort?

If half the tax fraud in this country was ended, there would be enough money in the system to make huge improvements to Carers Allowance (increase to double, kill the overlapping rule, extend CA to all carers with increases for multiple carers) and increase Social Care spending by 50%.

So which fraud gets the effort?

If half the benefit fraud in this country was ended, we could increase Carers Allowance by maybe £10.

[g.herschel]

Many moons ago i said it was easier to care for someone if you were rich or had no money problems at the time a few people said i was wrong and they claimed no amount of money can help you as a carer, i think the fact that some try and fiddle the benefits system is proof that they need extra cash we know its wrong but when genuine carers and others on various benefits are in dire straits for many the only way out is to con the benefits agency to many its no different to an M.P. with his expenses.
Take DAVID CAMERON sadly he has a disabled child iam not sure but i dont think the carers allowance would have been an option for anyone within his household as he is from a wealthy family and has no money problems he is able to pay privately for a carer for his child to give himself and his wife a well earned break one thing that is true no matter how rich you are you will still have to care for a child / elderly parent and we all no how much of a strain that can be however what gets me is as a rich person they can get private care but do they ever stop and think - my god iam lucky what if i was a shop worker and my wife was unable to work how would we cope thats why we have reviews of benefits from time to time to make sure all is working well, if they had only listened to carers we may have got some extra cash via the carers allowance when the review was published sadly no help for carers was forthcoming at the time i thought CAMERON would have made a comment on the problems of carers his silence was deafening which led me to believe he like all the others has no interest in carers if he has a private carer i wonder how much pay she gets per hour ????????????????????????????????????


GEORGE========

[Alexr115]

Benefit fraud estimates from the government suggest that it stands at £800-900 million, although this figure includes DWP overpayments where it was the DWP's fault! Either way, this counts as something less than 0.5% of the overall benefit figures. To me that shows that benefit fraud isn't as bad as we are led to believe, especially if the government have to combine Overpayments with fraud, Charles do you think you could link me the article where you got those figures from as I was discussing benefit fraud & tax fraud with my mum the other day

The government also tells us that around £3 BILLION in benefits is not being claimed. So they are making on the deal.

Tax fraud stands at around £27 BILLION - according to government figures - and others have suggested it is much more - around £42 billion a year. I have always said if a company has offshore accounts to escape their tax obligations then HMRC should be able to shut that company down, regardless of which company that is. I also beleive that if a resident of our country has offshore accounts they should move to the country where their accounts are held or have to pay back the amount of tax they have avoided paying.

I would never condone any type of fraud from the state whether it be tax fraud or benefit fraud. Anyone who does fraud the state is stealing from this country and means that people who deserve the support may suffer because of someones greed.

Just found that £18million was lost to benefit fraud in 2006 http://www.stopbenefitfraudni.gov.uk/cost.htm

a figure for the cost of tax evasion http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008 ... dspending1 but not sure if that is soley for UK companies

[/climbs down off soapbox]

[smiler]

Those who know how to cheat the system will soon find a way round the new rules even if it means they have to work a few hours a week.

the neighbour occasionally seen working in his garden may be terminally ill, this was the case with a friend of my parents, he tried to keep going up to the end, was he a fraudster?

Many with disabilities push themselves to do things that others see as normal day to day activities some will see a person doing this as a benefit cheat even if they only push themselves once a week of a fortnight. Are the medical service doctors going to class those who do push themselves to achieve something as fit for work?

As Alex wrote £900 million benefit fraud £3 billion unclaimed benefit £42 billion tax fraud.

Then even with the fraud the government are saving money on benefits then the rich for whatever reason don't pay tax or less than someone earning £200 the some of rich are just over £40 billion better off. If the government had the b4lls to say pay up the country would have £40 billion

[Alexr115]

As Alex wrote £900 million benefit fraud £3 billion unclaimed benefit £42 billion tax fraud.

Charles wrote that i added my bit in red

[charles47]

I got the figures off the internet last year. Don't have the links but used a standard search engine (I use everyclick, which is a charitable search engine). The Metropolitan Police did a survey of all fraud against government departments during 2005-6. It made for very interesting reading.

[kenneth2dundee]

I am a carer for 15 years had heart attack on the 3 january still carers for mum have power of attorney for mums affairs. try in amongst my own illness and all the much stress loosing my home to debts etc.

having to live in fife awy from mums house do not get carers allowance due to overlapping rule. stick sick and perment incapacity benefit have applied for dla have to aapeal the dla not been successful.

message to SARNIAJOY this comment came from a senior welfare rights officer who has said to me in his 25 years in money advice and beneift and allowances appeals tribunals etc.

He has said that any application for any benefit or allowance is the most NEGATIVELY DISGNED SYSTEM IN PLACE AND YOU WILL ENEVER WIN THE FRIST TIME AND MUST NEVER BE OR HAVE A POSTIVE ATTITUDE TO MAKING AN APPLICATION THAT IS HOW THE WELFARE SYSTEM HAS BEEN DESIGNED NOT JUST TODAY BUT FOR DECADES.

yOU MUST NEVER TALK OF GOOD DAYS ETC. MUM HAS CANCER AND SEVERE OSTEO ARTHRITIS WHICH IS CHRONIC AS WELL AND OVER THE LAST 15 YEARS WHEN MUM HAS HAD ASSESEMENTS DONE BY CARE MANAGERS AND OCCUPATIONAL THERAPISTS THEY TURN THE GOOD POSITVE OR AS MUM PUTS IN PERSERVERENCE IN AMONGST CHRONIC PAIN 24/7 INTO A NEGATIVE OF NOT QUALIFING FOR A PARTICLUAR SERVICE DUE TO POSITIVEMENTAL ATTIUDE YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE POSITIVE AND PUSH YOURSELF TO KEEP YOUR INDEPENDANCE.

IT IS AGAINST THE ETHOS OF CARE MANAGERS AND OCCUPATIONAL THERAPISTS FOR YOU TO BE POSTIVE ETC. THAT IS MUM AND MY EXPERIENCE OF THE SOCIAL SERVICE IN DUNDEE BY THE DUNDEE CITY COUNCIL SOCIAL WORK DEPARTMENT.

i AM STILL FIGHTING THEM TO THIS DAY SO ME WITH MY PROBLEMS AND MUM WHO IS NOW TERMINALLY ILL ARE WE FRAUDSTERS FOR BEEN POSTIVE OR HAVING OR TRYING TO HAVE APOSITVE MENTAL ATTITUDE.

SORRY FOR THE PUN BUT I JUST THINK THIS INSANE AND LUDICROUS DISCRIMMNATORY WELFARE LEGISLATION IN PLACE IS BEEB CREATED AND PUT IN SITU AGAINST CARERS AND DISABLED PEOPLE.

The legisaltion does not give atoss about carers or disabled people or how much money we need to have.


kenneth2dundeenow fife

[Scally]

it never ceases to amaze me that MPs and ministers past and present have no difficulty in acting without integrity and turn a blind eye to the wealthy who do likewise yet point the finger to those at the bottom of the social and economic scale when the amount that is defrauded from the benefits system by a very small minority is a fraction of the amount of tax withheld by the wealthy.

Sure, so we agree that all property is theft, right? true, very true, but also fraught with problems, and they cant all be blamed on envy alone....

The problem is, and always has been, to find a fairer and politically acceptable alternative to the free market for distributing wealth . If (say) I work my ass off running a corner shop seven days a week to help my kids through Uni and pay off my mortgage, I am not very happy to see my tax used to see some lazy bone idle nobody on the dole enjoy the same standard of living as me... well, why should I be? Not that I want to see that person starve to death, but I get cross when they have three TV's, two computers, and run a car at my expense.

Likewise, I don't wish to have to use my life savings to pay for care when some reckless person who blew it all on licorice allsorts gets the same care for free.

As carers, we do have a special case... but we still need to win the argument.

[charles47]

All of which is fair enough, Excalibur, but fraud is fraud and should be treated as such. If the government chased up on tax dodgers with even half of the enthusiasm and glee with which they chase up on the far fewer benefit cheats, the result would be rather more considerable.

[smiler]

YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE POSITIVE AND PUSH YOURSELF TO KEEP YOUR INDEPENDANCE.

So true Kenneth if you push yourself once then those who make the decisions decide you can do more, no matter how much discomfort you may be in by doing that once in a while. They waste money on appeals when the cheapest option is to pass the application for the majority in the first place as around 75% win an appeal if they are represented. It has nothing to do with your illness it is all about how you fill in the forms how do you think those who claim the benefits fraudulently do it ? it is all about getting the claim passed at the first attempt without the need for further examination, failing that most will not appeal but try again later IMO