Benefit cheats?

[Myrtle]

The biggest cheats are the mp's themselves and the very rich who bankroll them. It is far easier for them to point the finger at the targets the public sees, the unemployed, the sick, the disabled, the carer for which they can provide figures i.e. these people cost you the tax payer so many billions a year, here is the budget to prove it.
There is a section of the public in this country, families where one or both of the parents have never worked and whose children are likely to see this as a way of life, where young girls see having babies as the only way to have a home of their own etc.
There is also a section who have spent their lives trying and failing to find work that pays enough to support their families.
There are those who cannot work, through sickness or disablilty, cared for by people who give up their earning power to do this.
There are, of course, scroungers, but these are the minority.
But the biggest scroungers do not fall into any of these categories.
The biggest scroungers are the ones who can afford accountants to ensure they pay as little tax as possible. The super rich whose money is all abroad, hidden, untaxable. Those fiddling expenses, whose salaries are more than enough in the first place.
The 'untouchables'.
So the Government lumps all the 'touchables' under one umbrella, without exception.
To spend vast amounts on reforms and green papers is to be seen to be doing something.
To spend vast amounts on reforms that are beneficial takes courage, vision and compassion.
To spend vast amounts where they are needed, not wasted, takes a person who knows the difference.

They seem to be in rather short supply in the corridors of power.

[Sarniajoy]

No one should cheat the benefits system and being envious of others is not the way to go, imo!

[Myrtle]

If you are suggesting that I am envious of anyone then you are way off the mark.
Nor am I suggesting that anyone should cheat the benefits system.
The point of the above is that carers and disabled are not benefit cheats and there are better ways for the government to spend it's time than scaring a very vulnerable section of society half to death, when. with a little thought, the situation could and should have been avoided.

Indeed, I am very happy that you have no worries over the welfare reform.

[Guest]

I absolutely agree with both your posts, Myrtle, it never ceases to amaze me that MPs and ministers past and present have no difficulty in acting without integrity and turn a blind eye to the wealthy who do likewise yet point the finger to those at the bottom of the social and economic scale when the amount that is defrauded from the benefits system by a very small minority is a fraction of the amount of tax withheld by the wealthy. As for envy, personally I'd rather be poor with my integrity intact than wealthy and lacking in integrity, a sentiment that I'm sure we all share.

[Sarniajoy]

If you are suggesting that I am envious of anyone then you are way off the mark.
Nor am I suggesting that anyone should cheat the benefits system.
The point of the above is that carers and disabled are not benefit cheats and there are better ways for the government to spend it's time than scaring a very vulnerable section of society half to death, when. with a little thought, the situation could and should have been avoided.

Indeed, I am very happy that you have no worries over the welfare reform.

There are many carers and the disabled who cheat the benefit system, unfortunately by making out their infirmity to be worse than it is! As soon as my husband became more mobile after his brain haemorrhage we contacted the DWP so his benefit could be cut accordingly.

[babybonnie]

i agree myrtle that they should put the fear of god into other groups in society and not those who are vulnerable, like so many on here are. the reform of whats going to or not going to happen will scare more people who are geniunely in need of the benefit system. the ones who know they are cheating are everyday taking a risk and will finally be called forward. will they care, probably not, only that they will have to earn their money etc. unfortunately there are alot of benefit frauds in all areas of the benefit system. people who are genuine will have i hope no reason to worry.i've heard people in my time say to each other they claim this and that but are not really sick,and suggestions to others to do so are freely given away. they will even tell you how to fill the long listed forms in. i think if it handled with care and dignity then i think its a good thing to check peoples claims. we have nothing to hide so to speak. not to say that i'm with all the others in saying it is quite streesful knowing theres going to be more investigations etc, which will delay things when setting up care etc.
we all hear stories of the disabled man for example who can;t walk or even move at all, but is seen later up a ladder fixing the roof. this is an example only. i bet if it were posted on here if any of us know of someone claiming benefits because they are unable to work and who should be working, then the post would be inundated dont you thinnk.

[Guest]

I have known many people on disability benefits and have only known one couple who blatantly defrauded the system. As the wife had already been convicted of benefit fraud I blame the DWP for failing to follow their own procedures when processing her claim for DLA and failing to investigate whether they were living together or not, their claims for different benefits gave conflicting stories.

As I've said before we don't normally know the details of someone's life or their medical condition so we're not in a position to judge, the neighbour occasionally seen working in his garden may be terminally ill, this was the case with a friend of my parents, he tried to keep going up to the end, was he a fraudster? I think not. There was a time when we would have seen trying to do things, despite illness or disability, as a virtue now we point the finger, I preferred it when we didn't look for criminality in our acquaintances and neighbours but took people on trust, it was a far better and healthier society to live in than the society we now inhabit.

[Guest]

If you are suggesting that I am envious of anyone then you are way off the mark.
Nor am I suggesting that anyone should cheat the benefits system.
The point of the above is that carers and disabled are not benefit cheats and there are better ways for the government to spend it's time than scaring a very vulnerable section of society half to death, when. with a little thought, the situation could and should have been avoided.

Indeed, I am very happy that you have no worries over the welfare reform.

There are many carers and the disabled who cheat the benefit system, unfortunately by making out their infirmity to be worse than it is! As soon as my husband became more mobile after his brain haemorrhage we contacted the DWP so his benefit could be cut accordingly.

Hi
I applaud your honesty.
But i seem to get the impression that you have this way of putting people down it may not be intentional but it sometimes comes across as it does.
People put there thoughts on here and it's what they are thinking at the time of posting it may not be what you are thinking it may not be what others are thinking but it is there right as it is yours to post.
Please don't take this as me being offences to you i am not.
I think we can all see other's views and don't think that others are envious of others.
I should be envious because i don't even get the small amount as you do of C/A.
So let's see the good in all our posting whether we agree with them or not.
John.

[rosemary]

Great post Myrtle.

No matter what system is put in place there will always be a few who can 'fiddle' it but they are in the minority compared to the genuine cases.

No matter who you work for if you have a expense account it is the norm to show full receipts for everything,yets ministers are allowed to vote themselves if theirs should be open to scrutiny???

Just now it seems the rich get richer whilst many of those most vulnerable live in poverty.

My worry about these reforms is how they are going to determine who has the greatest needs.Will that be a person in receipt of high rate DLA and their carers who will be exempt??
What about those on middle rate and their carers??

Why do we only get half the picture.???


.

[philippa_150712]

Sarniajoy said:

No one should cheat the benefits system and being envious of others is not the way to go, imo!

You have misunderstood what Myrtle is saying Sarniajoy...Myrtle is not condoning benefit cheats she is condemning those who cheat the system at any level..she is condemning a system that is itself unfair...

It's not envy Sarniajoy , it's 'righteous anger' ...a sense of injustice....a sense of compassion for those who through no fault of their own are not only left at the bottom of the system but are made to feel guilty about it and anger at those who treat privilege, good luck, greed and selfishness as a virtue.

I worked hard at school, but I was also lucky because i had parents who were able and willing to support the education i had at school by listening to me read etc and I had my health. I would have been fine in this system (because of luck), I doubt i would have had any money worries and I would have had a lot more freedom ..if my husband had not had three brain haemorrhages when we were just in our twenties. Unfortunately he did not make a good recovery and was left needing 24 hour care.

We were both working full time at the time he was ill. I gave up work to care for him because the alternative was to put in him an old people's day centre. We did not suddenly become workshy. Of course i could have walked out on my husband..i could have left the taxpayer to foot the bill for his care...but it was not an option because i love him....no more than he could walk away from his disabilities.

Now it seems that all my efforts and the efforts of other working age carers are not enough for this government...(it is not enough that carers save the taxpayer £87 billion a year) now if i lose my part time job, i and carers like me will be put on jobseekers allowance...there will be no financial acknowledgment that i am acting responsibly, that caring can be more demanding and difficult than paid work....just saying that carers are excused from looking for work and still claim jsa does nothing to address carer poverty.

Equal opportunity is a myth. Quite apart from the fact that we are born with unequal opportunities because of genetics, health and social background, where are all these well paid jobs for people with disabilities, or those who weren't born lucky and lack marketable skills.. Where is the high quality respite for carers to genuinely be able to choose to take up paid work or the acknowledgment that caring is WORK and that expecting full time carers to lift themselves out of poverty by working even harder than they already do is unfair.

There will always be people who cheat the system at every level but as Myrtle says very little is done about those who are much better at cheating the system than those at the bottom. Nothing is done to make the system itself fairer. Employers willing to employ people with disabilities, jobs that pay wages that actually lift people out of poverty would be a better incentive to work than work tests and threats of withdrawing benefits. The whole wage/income/social structure of this system is unfair, the way that capitalism works is unfair, life is unfair, yet the govt (and the tories) persist in pretending that people have equal opportunities to work their way out of poverty...

I was brought up to be honest and hardworking but I was also brought up to have a sense of fairness and a sense of responsibility not just for myself and my family but for my fellow human beings..

It's not envy that i and other carers on this board are expressing....it's anger at injustice.