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3rd Leaders debates- who came out on top - Page 2 - Carers UK Forum

3rd Leaders debates- who came out on top

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It's sometimes useful to use the quote feature when there is a busy conversation, for example, to ensure that people know who is responding to which post. Some do it all the time, others do it some of the time. It's particularly useful on the roll call. Otherwise it would be murder trying to make sense of the different discussions crossing each other! Image

I use it myself occasionally if I feel there's a need - usually that's on the roll call for the reasons I've just given. Sometimes it's useful if I need to answer any specific points out of a longer post. Far better to use the actual words someone has written rather than trying to get the gist of it across. Less chance of misunderstandings, for one thing.

Sometimes it's useful because occasionally members have changed their posts and the response's meaning has been changed. This doesn't happen often but I know I've changed some of my posts when I've realised that what I wanted to say wasn't quite what I'd actually written and it needed to be changed. Occasionally that would be after someone has responded and the danger then is that their response might have been made meaningless.
Perhaps its not legal immigration that is causing some concern, maybe its illegal immigration.
How does society define an illegal immigrant? Many genuine refugees are refused refugee status and therefore are therefore wrongly defined as illegal immigrants. And what is wrong with leaving your country to enter another to try to improve your and your family's circumstances? The British are able to do it with relative ease so why not allow potential immigrants from poorer countries the same opportunities here? However we try to fudge it, legal, illegal, this society is not as tolerant as it would like to make out.
I agree wholeheartedly, Parsifal.

Of course, the problem (politically) is that we actually need immigrants to do the jobs others refuse to do, and to carry out the skilled work where there are skills shortages. Traditionally, the largest employer of immigrant labour has been the government via the NHS. So for the same government to complain about immigration is a joke.

Seemingly the worst offender was Enoch Powell. He actually actively encouraged immigration as a minister with responsibility for the NHS. And then decried the government for allowing immigration. But he only seemed to be the worst offender because he was open about it. The worst ones are those who know the truth and lie about it. THat's pretty much most of the current batch of politicians.
The pro immigration argument is all well and good but there is no escaping the fact we are a small Island and the infrastructure cannot cope, there are plenty of people who have settled here who agree.
The worst argument for immigration has got to be people come here from other Countries because the indiginous population will not do the work, maybe we should look at the wages for those jobs Image
Vicky
The pro immigration argument is all well and good but there is no escaping the fact we are a small Island and the infrastructure cannot cope, there are plenty of people who have settled here who agree.
The worst argument for immigration has got to be people come here from other Countries because the indiginous population will not do the work, maybe we should look at the wages for those jobs Image
Vicky
As emigration is much in line with immigration, i.e the number of people entering the country is roughly equal to that of the number leaving, the infrastructure argument surely does not stand up to scrutiny unless you argue that the infrastructure never could cope.

And it is a fallacy to suggest, as many anti-immigration spokespeople and articles do, that immigrants do not bring skills which we need to this country, many of those seeking asylum in here have degrees, qualifications and skills which we do not allow them to use, preferring to leave them without the means to support themselves when they could and wish to work or condemning them to low-skill, low-pay work.

If we do not want people to enter this country, and I welcome them, I can only suggest that those who object to immigration solve the problems which bring immigrants to our shores, starting with the consequences of our involvement in the 2003 invasion of Iraq.
I'm with Eddie Izzard on this one - his brilliant documentary - Mongrel Nation.

We 'Brits' are in the most part a mixture of every race we have ever been in contact with - Saxons, Vikings, Romans, French (1066 and all that!), from centuries back - they were all 'immigrants' weren't they Image

I don't have any problem with people coming to (or leaving) this country to better their lot in life - the only time I get angry is when those who chose to come here then flatly refuse to integrate in any way, or who show contempt for and refuse to accept the laws of the land they have chosen to reside it.
We can't possibly say it is equal coming in and going out as there are unknown figures of illegals and we do not have a count out.
As for the infrastucture, yes, I would say it was already under strain but then I believe the world is over populated never mind this small Island. I have not said immigrants do not bring skills, some do and some don't, much the same as our own population.
I don't believe we should be involved in Iraq fwiw but this is a problem not confined to one particular area in the world.
Most of all I do not believe in anyone making a profit by exploiting someone else and immigration certainly adds to this problem.
Vicky
After graduating from Uni, I was an illegal worker for four years in Japan, New Zealand and Australia, and the reason I did it was because I wanted to see the world whilst I was young and single. There is no shortage of work in almost any country that either locals don't want to do because of low pay, rural areas, lack of local skills, or the temporary, seasonal nature of employment. So I taught English, heaved fish on wharves, picked apples and tobacco, worked night shifts in factories, worked as an actor in rep, and had a wonderful time. If foriegners want to come here illegally to staff our hotels and bars for a summer of two, then good luck to them.
But the shady aspect of this is trafficking women for prostitution and exploiting young Chinese illegals working and living in squalid conditions who are blackmailed by the gangsters - like the cockle pickers who died in Morcambe Bay.
So I would favour a tight-loose approach - targeting the gansters but allowing most young backpackers in on a working visa for a year or two without too many hurdles.
Whatever the results of the debates and who performed best, I just don't believe that an Eton-educated millionaire can truly identify with people who are on low incomes and who struggle financially. We have just moved into a different election catchment area, and we have a really good LibDem MP (Martin Horwood) who will probably lose to the Conservative candidate.

When I was at uni, I mixed with students from state and private schools, including a seriously posh but lovely guy from Westminster and one from Rugby. (Charterhouse boys were lovely too...) Only the Eton lads did not mix, and stayed only with other Eton lads. That formed my opinion that they are taught that they are different. They were polite, and would greet me as they passed, but had nothing to do with non-Eton students. It was widely commented on. I didn't dislike them, but realised they were apart from the rest of us.