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Bi Polar and Borderline Personality disorder - Carers UK Forum

Bi Polar and Borderline Personality disorder

For issues specific to caring for someone with mental ill health.
Hey my names Dani and Im sorry this is so long but i need help desperatly for the situation im in

So it's a new relationship and we have known each other for almost 4 months... He told me about his bi polar a month in but depression earlier ... I know for a fact he is lying to me about his job. He says he works in a gym and mma trains and I know his stories don't add up and have contacted the gym outright and waiting on a response from them now but I generally don't think he works at all... Being a new relationship I find it hard to trust someone to begin with anyway as I've been messed around before and even my own family some of them are compulsive liars... He over exergerates many of his stories if they are true and goes off into a world of his own sometimes... He doesn't drive but says he borrows his mums car... Doesn't have a license... Says he used to ride motorbikes and fell off 2011... Says he's been on holiday all over the place and went and did route 66 alone on a Harley... I have no proof of anything he has said... His mums a alcoholic so i can't even speak to her about it but am close to going over there when shes not drinking hopefully and have a chat to say im concerned but not accuse her son of stealing... His dad he says used to abuse him and his mother... he has all nasty scars on the front of his stomach... He says it was more a ex to me but to my mum made out it was more his father... His grandad is extremley ill right now has vascular dementia and is a leg amputee... Grandads currently in hospital and has little time to live... i believe my boyfriend is his carer full time and sleeps in in the morning like his mother on a day off...

Stealing... So two weeks ago I went and picked him up and brought him over to have tea... He had a empty rucksack with him as he likes to put things we buy up town in his bag... This is the first sign I know for a fact he filled the rucksack with things and went in my mums draws and took a purple hairbrush... and my mums purple sunglasses... his mums fave colour is purple so go figure he goes for something like this... now my mum said something was missing as soon as she came in the door off the side but couldnt remember what it was... this was her sunglasses... Now the i found the sunglasses and the hairbrush in my car a couple of days later... but still have no idea what he had in the bag... When i dropped him home that night i tried to confront him about it and he got upset accused me of calling him a liar and that i dont trust him and he swore to me he would never steal off me ... more red flags... because i know other people who are on bi polar i knew not to push the subject anymore when he was in this type of mood and wanted more then anything to empty the bag but i knew he would go off on one... i went to the toilet and in the time i was in there he emptied the bag... go figure. I told him i trusted he would never steal off me and that he i was there for him when he needed the suport... I didnt quite know what to think the next day and got frustrated with myself for letting him steal things from my house and not knowng what... My mums a bit of a hoarder so ill never really know what hes taken except the hair brush and sunglasses... I know its not the point but i really couldnt care less what he stolen from my home.

The hair brush and sunglasses were in my car and he obvioulsy chucked them in there on the way back to his house... I dont know if that was the guilt or the fact that he knew he was being suspcious..

I knew confronting him about stealing again wouldnt get me anywhere... So instead i went at it in a way to say im trying to be supportive and understand whats going on but i needed to know why he moved my mums hairbrush and what it meant... He said he didnt remember doing this and thought i was accusing him of stealing once again which i wasnt and it took me a while to get through to him that i just wanted to understand his curiosity and tendancy to move things... hes very clever and tries to twist it around and make out im the one with the problem... To be fair his reaction to me asking why he moves things which shouldnt be moved took me by suprise and i didnt quite know what to say to that at all... Still dont even tho we talked things over yesterday and i went home and carried on texting him and then called him in the evening i still didnt quite know what to say... i was quiet and speaking to him quietly to get across my feeling of not being able to understand the reason he does some of the things he does. i also asked him if he was taking his medication and he is taking diazepam, sertaline, 5 htp, lithium carbonate but im not sure if he is taking medication to help with other things that are going on...

There are so many positive things i can say about him, He treats me with such respect, when he has the money he treats me to meals and cinema or whatever else we fancy doing, We mainly split the cost of somethings so im not asking him to do this and tell him off all the time for spending his money on me when he doesnt have it and shouldnt be spending it... He has a lot of respect for his mother too and buys her meals every evening or something else to eat... He really is one of the most caring sweethearted guys and i know thats not a lie as ive seen it first hand and ive seen him so upset about his dad and given him comfort through that, hes comforted me so much through the stuff i go through with my own mother being a carer for her and my mum is on oxygen 24/7 doesnt help her self and can be a nasty piece of work at times because of her anixety and anger... Even while im writing this im in tears because my mum wont help herself or listen to me when i tell her to take her medication and its heartbreaking hearing her cough her guts out all morning. My fella has been so supportive of this like i have of him being a carer of his dad... He cooks dinner and buys dvds for us to watch etc... There are a trillion positive things i can say about him over all the negative and thats why i fell for him...

Id like to think im not gullible and that i can see through most crap and from the begining i knew he exagerated things wayyy tooo much and i told him everytime he did and hed go "oiiii daniii give me this one" haha...

Last Friday i went over there to split up with him and got in tears because of everything going on with my mum too... We had to call the docs out an she looked pale as anything... Ive really been struggling with mum recently and hes been the only support ive really got with it all... My own family are no support... I have a few good friends and my dad who tries to understand but truly doesnt because they are not living with her 24/7... Over the last couple of days ive realised how emotional i am too... Thing was friday i had enough emotions going on through my head and couldnt lose the support i got from him and then later on that day the roles reversed and he was in tears about his dad who cant even remember who he is and can hardly feed himself which is again heartbreaking to watch... I couldnt split up with him friday... he was in tears and the thing is i know his pain as im losing my mother to a battle i cant fight...

I havent seen him since friday and taken a few days break for myself... Still texting and calling him as if i dont respond within 2 to 3 hours hes calling me up worried something is up unless i tell him im busy which is what i did saturday... I didnt text him till around 6 o clock saturday night...

To clear up a few things hes not a heroin user, maybe has the occassional drink and doesnt tell me about it but definatly not illegal drugs,

I also know what its like to have a alcoholic mother, When my mum was first placed back on oxygen 4 years ago she was drinking recklessly in the evenings and i have seen the worse side of her so we relate in that way...

Havent spent so much time with him i think its more prescribed drugs hes addicted too and I also think this goes beyond Bi Polar, Some of the things he said and did friday while we spent time with his dad leads me to believe this is more and he actually has Multi Personality Disorder or Borderline Personality disorder, This explains why he lies and steals... Im not saying its a excuse.. I do deserve better... I want to get him help but dont know how to go about this and need to speak to his neighbor and get some answers before i go to him with my concerns, Im going over tomorrow to just hang out and maybe cinema or something...

I know MH issues affect everyone differently but the thing was i thought this was a MH i was more aware of... U all say lying is not a bi polar symptom but i have known people going through a episode to lie because they dont know what else to say and just chat and chat, Stealing is a new one for me in the Bi polar world and had never known this to happen and thats why i came to u guys for support... He doesnt steal from shops as i watch him closely and having been around thieves in the past ( whole other story im not willing to share right now, Ive never stolen a thing in my life but mehhhh)...

Wih Borderline Personality Disorder they usually steal money etc but as we have no money lying around the house and just absolute junk thats why he took what he took..

I think the reason he threw them back in the car was because he knew hed been caught and had to place the two things he was most likely to get spotted for back in the car...

Ive posted this on the bi polar forum too and am getting support off them too... Going to book a appointment for myself to see someone about the emotional state im in and to get some answeres how i can help myself to how i can drag him to the docs...

Hes not welcome at mine as i dont trust him and im not putting him in a place to give him the chance to do anything like that again.. Funny thing is hes given me the code to his key safe so i can enter and leave as i please... I never asked for this he trusts me that i would never take anything from him and I would never do a thing like that...

I have put extraw pressure on my shoulders since meeting him but hes also taken a lot of pressure off my shoulders so im so confused what to make of the whole situation and need any advice anyone can give me in the mean time...

I apologise that this is so long....
Get out of this relationship as fast as you can.

I was happily married for 34 years, sadly my husband died 11 years ago today of a massive heart attack.

Trust is absolutely the most important thing you need for a good relationship. You say that your family have lied too, that's wrong. Please don't land yourself with someone who will bring you grief and heartache.
I know.... Like seriously know the relationship is terrible and maybe since last week its more pity for him which is the the only reason i couldnt break up with him friday... And selfishness from myself because im using his company as a way to escape my real feelings... My family are a messed up lot and im shocked im not more messed up then i am but right now i cant deal with everything thats going on around me.... All i feel right now is utter heartbreak for my mum and take the boyfriend out of the picture completley and my life is still heartbreak right now and hes the only one who supports me and understands the pain... Even some of my closest family and friends dont understand whats going on with me as much as i try and explain... im just seriously down in the dumps and cant handle everything thats going on right now...
BB Im sorry to hear that... I know trust is the hardest thing... My family are full of lies and spitefulness and all sorts of horrible things have happened through out my life... The hardest thing is this is all a bit of a shock and i know i have to get out... Thank you
Daniella, you're in an incredibly hard situation.

Would it be sensible to take two bits of paper and write 'Good things about my partner' and 'Bad things about my partner' and seeing which list comes out longer?????

It's hard to make decision when 'everything is coming at us', and you have not had an easy ride in life right from the off.

You deserve a good life, you deserve a good family, you deserve a good partner (we all do!). If you haven't got 'a good family' and you haven't got 'a good partner', then you can still, all the same, 'have a good life'....but it may mean starting over, and letting go of all that is around you at the moment, and striking out afresh.

The past should not be a 'bog' to drag us down. We can love people, and still know they are not 'good' for us.

Remember, the key definition of a relationship is 'partnership' - even if both people in the relationship are 'needy' with 'issues' (etc etcx) we TAKE IT IN TURNS to support EACH OTHER.

How much support do YOU get from your partner? And if he isn't giving you ANY support, then he isn't your partner - he's just your 'caree' and you are his 'nurse'. That isn't a healthy relationship alas.

Wishing all that can be 'good and improvable' in your life - you don't have it easy, that is for sure - Jenny
Jenny thank u for ur suggestion and support... So today I confronted him about it by letter and this was the letter taking his name out of it...

I love you

Life is a rollercoaster at times. We all have to go through different issues in life. There are so many things I truly love about u. Your so loving and supportive. You treat me so well. Your impressions are brilliant and about 90@% of the time you cheer me up or make me laugh. I have a lot of love for you. The good points out way the bad and that's why I find this so hard. The fact you can't come over to my house because of what happened a few weeks ago has put a strain on our relationship. How can we truly be in a relationship if I can't invite u round for dinner or just to hang anymore. I know u didn't mean to do what u did. I know u find it hard to control the way u can be. I know more then anything you are hurting and not admitting how much. I want to be there for you but the sad thing is I can't until you start telling me the truth of what's going on. I think that if you tell me the truth you think I will hate you which couldn't be further from the truth. You might think I think Ur too much and too confused to be in a relationship and that I don't want to be in a relationship with you. I knew when I first met you it would be hard but knew you were worth fighting for. I don't want you to shut down on me. I want you to open up to me. It will be the hardest thing to do but unless you speak to me I can't be here for you anymore then a friend.

With the letter I didn't bring up the stealing because I didn't want to put too much pressure on him at once and i believe still that that day he was having a manic day and won't remember it... Calling someone out to lying is difficult enough and he finally broke and told me the truth... That he's been doing it all his life and never understood why and when others have found out they hate him and won't let him explain... The thing is he's never understood and he was in floods of tears... He needed it to boost his ego.. He needed it because of the hardship of being a carer for his dad full time and a mother who's a alcoholic... He needed it because letting his mind wonder was the only thing he could do to escape his true feelings... I hated putting him through that but we couldn't be in a relationship unless he opened up... Technically he still needs help but at least it's a start and we can now move on from the lying and focus on other things...

I wanted to make u guys aware of what happened incase someone else out there is stuck in a similar situation and doesn't know how to deal with the situation... Secondly I want to thank all of u for taking the time to read my issue and give me the advice you all did so thank you...

I think it's going to take months to help my fella out and I hope beyond hope it will help... I'll stick around to ask for advice when I need it and let u guys know how I'm getting on if anyone wants to know that is... It's been a rough month from me and I know the future will be a struggle but whatever happens he will always have support and a friend in me

Jenny the advice on writing the good points and the bad points helped me come up with a decision in how to write my letter to get across my feelings... Thank you for the support and it was your advice which made me think how t on handle this and one of the main reasons I handled it so well.
Daniella, that sounds really good, well done.

I think it's very revealing - helpfully so! - if you say his 'stealing' (I'm putting it in quotes for now, as in a way, it may not 'really' be stealing - see below!) has been going on all his life, then I think that might well indicate it is part of his 'mental illness'.

I believe that 'keptomania' - compulsive stealing - is an acknowledged psychiatric condition (I haven't look it up yet but I'm just going to now on the Interet!), and is almost inevitably never found in isolation - but it's part of, probably in fact a symptom of, other mental issues.

For example - and now I'm simply pulling this out of my own head, so only treat it in that respect! - it could be, maybe, that it's linked to his having had a rubbish childhood (alcoholic parents almost inevitably result in a pretty rubbish childhood for their children, as they usually love their addiction more than their children, ie, not enough to kick their addiction)(and of course they may have turned to drink/drugs to help them cope with their own rubbish childhoods)(The old saying 'the sins of the fathers are visited on the next seven generations' is very true psychologically, all too often - disturbed children become disturbed adults who then screw up, even if not callously, their own children, who grow up disturbed, etc etc etc....).

It would be easy to see 'stealing' as a kind of psychic 'revenge' maybe on parents who were never good parents to him, revenge on a fate that dumped him with them, as a kind of 'justice' even - ie, he's been forced to 'take' because he was never 'given to' etc ec.

There could be all sorts of reasons.....

But, I suspect that if there is 'kleptomania' in his mental illness mix, then it definitely needs to be addressed by his therapy (he does GET therapy doesn't he? I know it's hard and slow on the NHS but it's essential he gets some form of regular counselling!), as I don't doubt it needs professional interpretation.

Better still, to find out how to 'stop it', and that will probably only happen when he's understood what has caused it.

May I, for now, say one final thing. I said above about the 'seven generations' and how families can seem 'doomed'....that one dysfunctional person 'creates' another, down the generations, and it goes on and on and on.

Well, to me, THE most important thing for anyone trapped in that situation is to try and get hold of it and Break The Chain.

In a much lesser way than you or your partner (and yes, I think he CAN be your partner, if the good work with him continues!), I grew up with problem parents (well, problem mum - poor dad was just helpless really) - she had some form of MH (wasn't well diagnosed in my youth!), probably bipolar/schizophrenic, definitely paranoid and 'hysterical'....we had, my bro and I a 'bumpy childhood'. Our parents were deeply unhappy, and my bro and I 'vowed' that the one thing WE must strive to be was 'happy'.

We argued to ourselves, and still do, that it was bad enough our parents had unhappy lives - but what on EARTH woul be the point of their unhappiness, if their children were unhappy as well? Somehow, we had to 'break the chain'.

That comes from inside primarily ,because only when we've broken the chain - or, another analogy, same idea - that the 'strings' that are pulling us from our childhood, have been identified (first task - so many don't realise why they are the way they are!), and then cut/unknotted - can we head into our own, better, happier futures.

I wish you and your (WIP)Work-in-Progress!) partner all the very best. It does sound like you are 'on the way' to a better place and time together, and I do hope that with patience, determination, resolution, courage and above all, love, that you can help each other be happier......

Kindest wishes, Jenny

(Off to look up Kleptomania!)(

PS - the only thing worse than a 'mental health problem' (eg, kleptomania for example) is NOT KNOWING or NOT ACCEPTING that you have it. Without knowledge and acceptance, you just can't start to tackle it. So it's great he's made that much progress with you. Keep it going!

PPS - yes, onward and upward certainly, BUT, remember, there will inevitably be backsliding and problems still, so it's important not to be too discouraged, and to gather strength and keep heading upwards again. If the overall direction is 'up', rather than 'round and round in circles' then that is progress. :)
Your letter was lovely.

However, you've now said he's full time carer for his dad, and mum is an alcoholic?!

As a long term carer myself, this set all the alarm bells ringing. What help is he getting for his caring responsibilities. When did his parents last have a Needs Assessment, when did he last have a Carers Assessment?

Is he mentally unstable because caring is just too much for HIM?!?!
"The pathophysiology of kleptomania is unknown. Psychoanalytic theories link compulsive stealing to childhood trauma and neglectful or abusive parents, and stealing may symbolize repossessing the losses of childhood"


Glad to see my 'out of my own head' analysis might not be wrong (not necessarily applies in all cases obviously!)

There's lots and lots on K/m on the Internet - also pointing out that the patient is usually very ashamed, and it often only is discovered when the law gets involved ...so it's good this has come out 'safely' with you, for example.....

That same article above (it's in a learned journal, so lots of jargon!) (but obviously what the psychiatrists themselves read, so that's good!), also indicates that it can (potentially) be treatable, which is encouraging - eg,

"Naltrexone, an opiate antagonist used to treat addictive behaviors, has been shown to reduce kleptomania symptoms" and
"Topiramate, an anticonvulsant drug, has been shown to be effective in impulse control disorders, and recently topiramate demonstrated efficacy in treating binge eating.15 Again, this has been extrapolated to kleptomania with encouraging results in small case series.16,17 Additionally, there are case reports in the literature documenting kleptomania responding to lithium, valproate, trazodone, and electroconvulsive therapy"

It does seem to be 'complex', as in, mixed in with a lot of other 'bad stuff' going on inside the head, so it's just part of the overall MH presentation/syndrome, as I surmised.

Here are some more articles for you. See what rings a bell (or, indeed, doesn't)


http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-cond ... n-20033010
http://www.psychologistanywhereanytime. ... omania.htm

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/a ... leptomania

(A lot of these articles all say more or less the same thing!)

Just to say that, do always bear in mind that even if you can't 'sit in' with any therapy sessions your partner has, you are perfectly free to write to the therapist yourself, and simply state what seems to be going on 'from your point of view' - you can describe, as you have here, what the episodes are, how he responded, what you did, and so on and so forth. The therapist can't tell you anything that goes on in the session (unless your partner agrees), and may not even be able to tell you he/she's read your letter, but the point is that you will have 'input' more information about your partner that it could take quite a while for the therapist to tease out of him, or maybe even not succeed at all. The therapist will take on board that all you say is 'from your point of view' and not necessarily what is 'actually' going on inside your partner, but it could be very helpful for the therapist to build up a total picture as he/she interacts with your partner. (I say this because it does seem from what Iv'e been reading on the interneet, that kleptomania can be hard to diagnose, as so few patients want to reveal it....)

In terms of prevention, be uplifted by the following! "Positive intimate relationships, and management of acutely stressful situations may lower the incidence of kleptomania and coexisting disorders." You play a key role in those positive relationshiops!!!! :)

Read more: http://www.minddisorders.com/Kau-Nu/Kle ... z4rtAkai7m

I do hope this reassures you in the sense that it does seem to be a 'known MH' and does have recognition as such by psychiatric professionals and so on - it's not just him being 'bad'.....

Kindest wishes as you continue on your way with your partner, and your life. Always believe in the light at the end of the tunnel! Jenny
Very good point from BB.

Caring takes a huge toll on carers, all too often......

Glad the list idea helped - sometimes we are so overwhelmed, and so conflicted, that we need to clear a space, and try and sort things out in any way at all, and writing stuff down can give us a means of doing that.

Don't be surprised if some of the things about your bloke appear in both lists! one 'good thing' can be the 'other side' of a 'bad thing' for example.....which can make things more complicated.

For example, 'sensitivity' can be both 'he's sensitive about ME, which I love' AND 'he's always going on about HIMSELF'......

It can 'all depend' on where the balance is. As I say, for myself I profoundly believe that in a partnership we 'take it in turns' to (equally) support/be supported by each other. That's fair and right and 'strong'!