How to tell someone they're not good at something

[rabidrabbit]

At my son's enlightened workplace prospective employees who are "no good" at the skill required are taken on. They are given a one to one supporter until they reach the required skill. They have a learning disability. People with LD are ENTITLED TO HAVE THEIR DISABILITY RECOGNISED AND CATERED FOR!!!!!!!!!!!!

They often are "no good" at the skills we pick up easily- THAT IS WHAT A LEARNING DISABILITY IS!!!!!

People with learning disabilities have the same right to inclusive support as other people with different disabilities. The man clearly has an interest for the activity and NEEDS SUPPORT to participate. The group obviously don't want to give it. I suspect there is another side to the story here.

[Guest]

I absolutely understand what you are saying and I have nowhere suggested that people with a LD have less right to support than people with other disabilities because this is not something which I would ever countenance let alone something which I would endorse, support should always be appropriate to the individual whatever the disability, but I still have a problem with the concept that because someone has a disability they should be treated more favourably than non disabled people whatever the facts of the case simply because they are disabled when the favourable treatment is of no benefit to them in terms of the desired but unobtainable outcome and puts unreasonable demands or has a detrimental effect on other people. And I accept that some people take longer to acquire skills than others and that what is unreasonable or detrimental can be perceived differently by different people.

But the reality is that we all have our individual talents, skills and potential as well as our individual limitations whether we are disabled or not, the first three should be nurtured but our limitations are something which we have to accept and live with, I, for example, am not thinking of joining a rock-climbing club, this would not be to my benefit and would be more than problematic for other members, but I might decide to do something which I do have the capacity or potential to do as long as any adjustments which would have to be made for me are reasonable and do not impinge on the enjoyment of other members.

And surely this is what the thread is about, recognising that some things are simply not suitable for everyone, I wonder if A did not have a disability whether we would respond in the same way, it does raise concerns about discrimination, largely because of the comments which do not relate to skills, but if it is only down to a lack of skills which cannot be accommodated by this particular group the only way to resolve it surely is to treat A in exactly the same way as any other member who also lacks the necessary skills and a group which is in a position to develop any potential whether in this or another skill would be more beneficial to A.

[Lazydaisy]

Dragonlady,thank you for expressing it so well.

[late of this parish]

This will be my last post on this subject

The activity is not mainstream, requires excellent hand/eye/ear co-ordination, fine motor skills, timing, manual dexterity, good communication and a good memory. The person in question does not have any of these and even with the support of a saint would not be able to cope.
Not everyone can do this activity LD or not. It took 10 years of constant practice to reach the skill level I have now, slower than some, faster than others and the discipline of regular daily practice to maintain that level.
There are hobbies I would be no good at and I accept that.

Views on what is socially acceptable behaviour/ good manners will vary from person to person and place to place. These days swearing in the street seems to be seen as 'normal' by some but causes offence to others.
I am considered quite odd by my younger relatives for putting fish&chips on a plate to eat with a knife and fork rather than eating with my hands from the wrappings

We were people with a shared interest, not a club providing a service. Because it is not a mainstream activity and done by relatively few people, it was pleasant to meet others (with the same interest and skill level) socially, a regular but informal arrangement that is now ended.


Thankyou Parsifal for your well put posts giving views from 'both sides of the fence'

[malc]

it's all very secretive,it's a bit like 20 questions,are you all trainee spies or something,i get that the lad with downs can't be named but surely you can say what your club is about so people can agree or disagree it's not suitable for him,all very strange if you ask me!!!!

[late of this parish]

it's all very secretive,it's a bit like 20 questions,are you all trainee spies or something,

That made me laugh so it's my 'last post +1 ...... nothing so exotic .... and it's not a club
we all played obscure and complicated old music

[malc]

just thought i'd lighten it all up,i've not got ld,but i'd expect you to tell me to leave because i'm tone death and can't play an instrument,problem solved,it would be like somebody joining the wifes az group and not have dementia,they would be out of place and not welcome,see my point,disability isn't an issue if you can't do something.

[Lazydaisy]

I thought music was for everyone. It breaks down all barriers.
I nursed stroke victims who had lost the ability to talk, but could sing, Alzheimers patients who still retained musical memory,and they were beautiful to listen to.So sad that your group did not feel that the person with Downs was capable of enjoying lovely music along with you.

[charles47]

I've deliberately avoided getting embroiled in this discussion, partly because it's the sort of subject that will bring out everyone's own prejudices.

Parents of people with Learning Disabilities - myself included - are fiercely protective of their offspring. But sometimes that can be counter-productive.

Mike enjoys music - he has a wide range of musical tastes. He loves going to concerts, loves listening to music - and thoroughly enjoys singing. To himself. Or in the shower. Which is the best place for it - his singing voice was inherited from me, and a thing of beauty it isn't. He does not play a musical instrument although he's had a few desultory goes at various percussion instruments.

He'd rather listen to good music than make bad music. He gets that from me, too. I'd hope he had the confidence to have a go at karaoke if he wanted to, but only because sober his voice is no worse than any given drunk. And certainly not because he has any additional rights over anyone else.

Ann's vague description got me thinking of campanology - remembering the combinations (as in ringing the changes), the dexterity required to ring the bells with clarity and to deaden the sound at the appropriate point, etc. No way could Mike manage that: daft to even consider allowing him to try. People would be looking for the fire engine This is not twanging a laggy band over a tissue box, folks, and can't be brought to that level no matter how you try.

Equally, if the skill level required is less specific, some give and take is appropriate. Mike takes part in art classes. He is expected to deal with the issues taught, but can choose his own subjects within that. So when a piece of work involving perspectives was demanded of the class, he had to produce one - no easy ride for Mike. And he did it. With cartoon characters, because they were part of his comfort zone. However, his perspectives were absolutely spot on, which surprised everyone except Mike.

If people like Mike are to be included in society, it will take give and take on all sides. Otherwise who's discriminating against whom?

[late of this parish]

.So sad that your group did not feel that the person with Downs was capable of enjoying lovely music along with you.

'A' was ( and is ) not capable of playing a musical instrument or even beating in time to simple tune, he was also unable to sit quietly and just listen (which would have been OK)
Charles' comment about it not being twanging laggy band over a box sums it up perfectly