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Carers UK Forum • Power of attorney, is it too late?
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Power of attorney, is it too late?

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:04 pm
by Sydneyaus123
Hi all,

My Dad has been in hospital for 7 weeks now. The doctors have said he 'has' still got mental capacity, a specialist nurse phoned me today to say she thinks he 'hasn't' and should go in to a nursing home. He was mentally ok 13 weeks ago, getting a bit confused etc but still managing. Since being in hospital [taken in with bad pneumonia 7 weeks ago] he is very confused, has lost a lot of weight, is sleeping most of the time and is now very different . The nurse told me today that he has had a brain scan and has been diagnosed with vascular dementia. I have tried to speak to a doctor numerous times but none available.

The nurse said he will get funding for 4 weeks in the nursing home, then they will ask social services to do a review and they will see if he is eligible for the CHC payment. From the way she was talking about a £145 per week nursing top up and £500? a week social services payment it sounds as if she doesn't think he would get it. I have read up on and know all of the criteria to get it, and they said they would invite me to a meeting at the 4 weeks point when he is re-assessed in the nursing home.

I got Dad to sign the POA forms a couple of weeks ago while he was in hospital. The nurse asked me if I had POA and when I said no she said not to worry it doesn't matter now.
I am really worried that I need to make sure I have POA and get these forms sent off to apply for it. I have been waiting to see if Dad got better mentally as he was supposed to be coming home with a team of carers in place.
My Mum and Dads bank accounts and house are all in joint names. Does anyone know if Mum can sell the house in the future if we need to if my Dad is deemed as 'not having mental capacity etc'.
Is it essential to get the POA set up [even if it takes 11 weeks]

I would be so grateful if anyone has any answers xx

Re: Power of attorney, is it too late?

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:36 pm
by Chris From The Gulag
Hi Vivien.

Purely on the CHC / NHS Continuing Healthcare side ... main thread :

https://www.carersuk.org/forum/support- ... inks-32532

Full sp on there and ... from your posting , two sections in particular :
Asked to top up / pay for CHC care ?

Not eligible for CHC but may be so for NHS funded nursing care ?


GOLDEN RULE is to never believe ANYTHING you are told by the anyone working for the NHS or Social Services on the subject, especially if the person concerned is in hospital. Check the facts, ask here, check, check, and check again.

One snippet off the Internet which maybe of assistance here :

Guardianship also can be required when a person with Alzheimer's or dementia is no longer able to legally sign power of attorney documents due to mental incapacitation. Guardianship gives you the legal right to make decisions for a parent or loved one with Alzheimer's or dementia.

Others will be along to advise on the PoA problem.

Re: Power of attorney, is it too late?

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:19 pm
by jenny lucas
If it IS too late for PoA (did your dad sign the forms, that might be enough??), then you and your mum still have the option of the Office of the Public Guardian. The downside is the time it takes, and the cost (several hundred pounds, plus I think you have to put down a 'bond' in case you steal their money!), but at least it is doable when they have lost mental capacity.

Do you think your dad's mind may 'clear' a bit when he is out of hospital? It's not unusual for them to get very confused in new places, but you might find that if you got him home for a week, he would 'brighten up' and then you could get the PoA sorted, and try out the carer package, and if that doesn't work, then maybe yes time for a care home.????

Re: Power of attorney, is it too late?

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:29 pm
by Sydneyaus123
Hi Jenny and Chris,

Thanks for your replies,

I got Dad to sign the forms and have not sent them yet as have been hoping he might get better. The hospital have been assessing him and were going to aim to get him home with the maximum carers 4 x a day. However he has a lot of nursing needs now. He has a stoma that he has stopped changing himself, his diabetes is all over the place and he can't manage his insulin readings anymore, he isn't eating properly as is asleep most of the time, he keeps asking me what day it is, if the nurses didn't make him get up out of bed I think he would just sleep and not get up. He also has COPD and other health conditions.

My Mum also has vascular dementia and up until 3 months ago he would do her tablets and remind her to do things. She has declined a bit since he got ill and is not managing so well, with all the worry of it I guess. If my Dad did go home I'm not sure how long she could cope for and I live nearly 2 hours away.

I was hoping that at home he might get a little better, but I think the hospital have now deemed his needs too great as he still needs a lot of nursing involvement.

Re: Power of attorney, is it too late?

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:42 pm
by Chris From The Gulag
Your welcome.

In which case , a perusal of the MAIN CHC THREAD wil be essential !

That is one battle your father cannot fight ... he needs his daughter to do that for him.

NEVER lose sight of that Golden Rule.

Re: Power of attorney, is it too late?

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:56 pm
by Sydneyaus123
Thank Chris,

I actually went along to a local talk about CHC given by the Herts Carers Group 2 weeks ago. I thought it might be useful in the future.
It was very useful and from the paperwork and checklists I was given I think my Dad probably would be eligible in the future for it.

It's very sad to see my Dad like this as 3 months ago he was doing ok mentally. However life can just change so quickly and you are right, he doesn't have anyone to fight for him, only me.

Re: Power of attorney, is it too late?

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:05 pm
by Chris From The Gulag

I would suggest that they may have a lot more faith in the System than posters / readers of this forum.

No indication as to whether they are truly independent ( Rare in 2018 ) or an affliate of another organisation.

Not that really matters ... so long as they don't preach ?

I wonder whether the sectors covered matches our own ... particulary when the System interprets it's own rules differently to whats usually found in any textbook ???

Re: Power of attorney, is it too late?

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:41 pm
by bowlingbun
Whether or not it's possible to do a POA is debateable. Personally, I'd send dad's forms off asap.

Looking toward the future, you can ask DWP to become Appointee for both of them, to manage their benefits.
How old is mum? Does she own her house? Do you live with her? Do they have over £46,000 in savings between them? (Yes/No)

Re: Power of attorney, is it too late?

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:22 pm
by Sydneyaus123
Hi BowlingBun,

They own their own house worth about £180'000 [no mortgage] They have about £25'000 in joint savings from what I can see/find paperwork for. This should be all of it as Dad was always very methodical in filing etc.

Mum and Dad lived together, however since Mums vascular dementia diagnosis 3 years ago she is too scared to sleep in the house on her own, so for the last 7 weeks she has been staying at a friends and I am driving back and forth Herts to Norfolk to spend 3 days at a time there and keep the house going etc. Neither of them wanted to move near me, and still don't want to, but Mum can see now it might have to happen.

Dad gets Attendance allowance only. They haven't wanted to apply for anything else.

I thought that if I send off all the POA forms for both of them, I have them all, for the 'financial side' and the 'care side' that in 11 weeks time I would just receive some sort of letter telling me that I now had POA for them both? and that this letter is what I would need to show any council departments, banks, hospitals etc etc in the future. Have I got it completely wrong?

Re: Power of attorney, is it too late?

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:06 pm
by Henrietta
Hi Vivien
Firstly as I understand things you don't need to panic about selling the house as it she be diregarded in any financial assessmnet if mum still lives there. Maybe best if she returned home?
The same can not be said if an adult child under 60 lives there - don't get me started but you should be fine.

Secondly when I was in a similar situation with Dad and the Social Services and memory clinic were fairly united that Dad had lost capacity, I thought I was destined to go down the highly frustating , complex and invasive process of court of protection. I was advised to go for PofA and gather together supportive people on my side to sign the forms etc. This all seemed to going through ok but then Dad passed away so never came into practice. You don't need professional solicitors or GPs to sign POA forms just witnesses prepared to say that on the day he signed Dad had capacity- remember it comes and goes so one day may be better than another- always worth stressing that Dad is variable if you have any meetings with professionals.
That is unofficial advice but seemed to work ok for me so far as it went.
I guess it also relies on not having any troublesome relatives who may have different views in the picture.