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accessing help to get a relative into care if they won't go - Page 2 - Carers UK Forum

accessing help to get a relative into care if they won't go

For issues specific to caring for someone with dementia.
Thanks Anne - your thoughts are pretty much the conclusion I have reached. It is very helpful to receive your view on a situation similar to your experience. Mum will not even consider respite care. It is deeply ingrained . Any mention of care in a home provokes the same reaction even if it means some kind of break for us from what we have now. So the way forward appear to be -
Taking our forthcoming booked week's holiday in Portugal but not going to the usual trouble of having my sister and her husband do the 350mile round trip to collect her from her house. Instead I shall buy in her usual weeks shopping and leave the 3 times a day care in place. I shall inform the Alarm monitoring service that I am away and no one else is available to respond to call outs and their mobile people will have to check for falls etc if the alarm goes off. I shall also let Social Services know that I am going away because she is obviously under their category of vulnerable with living alone with dementia. This could provoke them into changing their mind about her mental capability. If you have mental capacity do you really put faeces and food down the sink ? I believe that in doing that she shows that she can't make a reasoned decision regarding whether she would be safer and better off in a care home.
Hopefully a continuation of the withdrawal of my constant availability will provoke a more frequent reassessment of mum's situation by the Social Services resulting in a recommendation for a care home which she would need to pay for. I hope that this can happen before she either has a bad fall causing hospitalisation or causes another flood /problem in the house leaving the house unfit. In either of these two cases going into a care home could be unavoidable.
I think also your point about written support from the GP is very good because when I took mum for her 6 monthly check up recently her doctor was more concerned about me and how I was!
Thanks again for your advice.
Sometimes, a GP is prepared to do a home visit, saying that it's a "routine visit for our most senior patients" to assess for him/herself the state of the home where a relative is gravely concerned. You are lucky to have a concerned GP, mine is anything but!
Your plan sounds a good one, enjoy your holiday. Feel proud of what you have been able to do for mum, she is lucky to have you.
This might be a good time to look at some of the homes nearest to you, to see which ones you like most, and talk to the Matron.
Thanks for that bowlingbun and yes I was quite surprised at the consideration shown to me at mum's appointment with the GP. Mum didn't even notice his concern about my wellbeing . I intend to have a look at local care homes and one in particular to which my mother in law's next door neighbour has gone. She too , has dementia like my mum but she has soon settled in and likes it .So that in itself is a recommendation.Trouble is its popular as you may imagine. Take care.
Roy, definitely a good idea to have a look at care homes. Make sure that they are set up for nursing care and can do end of life care. Not all can, and the last thing you want is to have to move homes. I was really glad I had done that when mum was in hospital and it was clear that she could not return home. For the more popular homes, you can also put mum's name on a waiting list as some have lists of six months or more ...

Also, if you have a sympathetic GP, he might be prepared to contact Social Services for you and recommend residential care for both your sakes.

Here's hoping, Anne
Mum had a fall last Tuesday and is now in hospital . The paramedics found her BP was sky high caused in all likelihood partly by the fall and a urinary tract infection . She was reluctant to go into A and E but eventually agreed . She is now in an assessment ward . However she is not happy and keeps saying that there's nothing wrong with her and she wants to go home . She says she will get a bus ! Imagine her reaction to going into s care home for respite or otherwise. I just hope that whoever decides see through all this and realises that even with her carers she cannot manage in her own home . I don't feel I can carry on picking up the pieces -sometimes literally -faeces and urine . On floors and in the sink or any bowl . Mum is using the toilet less and won't use the commode downstairs at all . She doesn't wash and won't accept help off the carers. She has had 3 or 4 falls recently and flooded the kitchen leaving the tap on . She sleeps in her chair although there is a bed in the living room . She hardly moves from the chair. Her vascular dementia seems to be getting worse . Who will decide at the hospital where she goes from there .
Roy, you need to tell the hospital what is happening at home so they have the full picture. I remember I insisted on being there when social services did their assessment. Each time my dad said that he could do something, I piped in and gave examples of things that had gone wrong. I pushed for respite care and more grab rails etc around the home and that's what happened. I felt awful as my dad just wanted to get home but he wasn't accepting his increasing difficulties and I was refusing to cover for him any more. It's not easy but it's got to be done...
Jx
It's sad your mum is in hospital, but you only have to re-read your own posts to see it is the best place for her - the only place....until she moves into permanent residential care.

You know the time has come for residential care, and the doctors and social workers will know it too. She cannot go home now, it's not sustainable, it's not possible.

For many folk here on the forum hospitalisation of the caree has been the 'trigger' or 'crisis point' which makes everything change.

It is desperately sad, but there it is. Her time of 'living at home' has come to an end. This may sound like 'cold comfort' but something I read here on the forum a good while back has really resonated - if we feel bad about 'putting our parents in a home' then we have to remember that the ONLY reason they are there is that (a) they NEED to be there because that's the only place they will have the care they need and (b) (more importantly!) they need care because they have LIVED SO LONG. I sometimes remind myself that there was an 'upside' to my husband dying in his fifties, which was that he will never now end up like his own mother - 92 and with dementia in a care home. If she'd died three years ago we'd all have remembered her as someone who'd been indominatably independent, and that 'she'd died the way she'd have wanted to' (ie, in her own home). Her tragedy was to live long enough for her mind to go, and so she's going to end her days in a home. The sad fruit of 'too long a life without the mental health to go with it'.

In terms of convincing the medics/SWs, I would write out everything you've posted here, and anything else, and have that all typed up for them.

Then, in writing, tell the you CANNOT cope with any more day-to-day care for your mum, and that you will therefore be withdrawing your care as the best place for her now is a home.

On one last 'up' note - as dementia sets in your mum will likely forget m ore and more her 'old life' (ie, living at home)....my MIL really can't remember her past life at all now. I talk to her about it when I visit, but she has no memories left. Sad, but, in a way, makes it easier for her.

Finally, others here have reported, and I would agree, that when the burden and stress and worry worry worry about the 'day to day' care is lifted from you, and done by the care home staff, that you actually get to enjoy your mum's company again, and when you visit - and maybe even take out (I do with my MIL) - it will be 'quality time' ....NOT time spent in mopping up the fruits of incontinence.....

All the very best, and this now is the time for your mum to 'move on' into the next and final stage of her life, which can be comfortable and easy for both her and you.

Kind regards, Jenny
Roy, have you spoken to your Mums GP? If she is older generation, she might listen to the doctor's advice even when she doesn't listen to you. Make an appointment at Mums surgery in Mums name, so the GP will have her records on the computer in front of him, and go instead of her. Then you could go back for another appointment together. If your Mums GP makes a fuss about patient confidentiality, make a massive fuss right back, face to face, about the difficulties of being her carer.
Marianne3 wrote:Roy, have you spoken to your Mums GP? If she is older generation, she might listen to the doctor's advice even when she doesn't listen to you. Make an appointment at Mums surgery in Mums name, so the GP will have her records on the computer in front of him, and go instead of her. Then you could go back for another appointment together. If your Mums GP makes a fuss about patient confidentiality, make a massive fuss right back, face to face, about the difficulties of being her carer.
As far as I'm aware, doctors will not under any circumstances, discuss a patient's condition unless the patient has given signed consent for them to do so....I think there may a provision under the Mental Health Act to counter this however. But although dementia could be called a mental health problem, nobody appears to want to invoke the act to help out in the situation described here, I know that I personally, would be very reluctant to take that route.
But it may be the solution to the problem.
Whilst doctors will not be able to DISCUSS a patient, due to the issue of patient confidentiality, them most definitely be prepared to LISTEN to a concerned relative, and should be prepared to ask questions which the relative can then answer. It is also possible for a GP to talk generally to a patient's relative about the average person with a similar condition. Rather than just turn up instead of the patient, I would ask the receptionist if you can have the last appointment of the day, and explain that you have a very serious problem to discuss. Any problem, discuss it with the Practice Manager beforehand. They have a duty to make reasonable adjustments for disabled patients, and their carers.
(When my dad was clearly in the last months of his life, due to prostate cancer, I tried to have a discussion with the GP, as it would mean I would soon have my seriously disabled mum to care for, as well as a son with a learning disability. The GP didn't want to talk to me. Then I rang the Prostate Cancer charity, explained the symptoms, and they said he had about 6 months left, which was accurate to within 2 weeks. After I'd spoken to the charity, I went back to the GP, told him what they'd said. This time, whilst he said he couldn't discuss dad's symptoms, he would disagree with what they'd said. He then told me what the progress of the disease was likely to be, again, spot on. Hope this helps).