[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/phpbb/session.php on line 585: sizeof(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/phpbb/session.php on line 641: sizeof(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable
This could be a touchy subject but.......... - Page 2 - Carers UK Forum

This could be a touchy subject but..........

Socialise and chat about other areas of your life
You have to play by there rules or it will come and bite you in the ass sooner or later.
You did Bodger Image
I was brought up on Christian principles, one of the ten commandments is thou shalt not steal. Once you have been given a gift, it becomes yours. You can't steal something you've been given.
Bowlingbun I'm not accusing anyone of stealing! Image Image

If you have been told you don't have to, even if they'd like you to, pay it back, then keeping it is not stealing.
It's up to your circumstances and your conscience.

Actually the reason I asked was I wondered if it was anything to do with changing perceptions of what we see as 'right' and 'wrong' in general or just to do with the DWP since all the welfare 'reform'.
If they overpay you, for any reason, you don't always have to repay them.
This is only partially true because it depends on why you have been overpaid.

If you have suddenly received an overpayment as a one-off, (ie - knowingly overpaid) the rules are, you are supposed to contact them saying you believe you have been overpaid. https://www.gov.uk/benefit-overpayments

However, if you have been overpaid through no fault of your own (ie - unknowingly overpaid) most likely through no fault of your own, then you most likely won't have to repay them.

To give an example - my wife and I were being paid Severe Disability Premiums in our Income Support for years. Unknown to us, SDP were supposed to stop once our kids reached 18 years of age because they were apparently classed as adults able to care for us, hence we wouldn't qualify for SDP. Since we didn't know this rule, we continued to get SDP. However, we DID inform DWP of a) our kids leaving school b) starting college c) starting University and/or d) starting work. This means that they were, or should have been, fully aware of the ages our children had reached every step of the way. They should therefore have been aware of their own rules which we were unaware of and therefore stopped our payments of SDP.

It wasn't until some years later we received a letter to say we had been overpaid SDP to the tune of some £14,000 (yes, FOURTEEN thousand pounds!) and that we had to repay it! We fought the case, proving that we didn't realise this rule and that we HAD informed them of our children's progress (and ages) along the way and, after going to tribunal, they ruled that it was DWP's mistake and we didn't have to repay.

So my thoughts are - if you have been overpaid through lack of awareness despite keeping them informed (ie - it's their fault) then you are probably unlikely to have to repay it. But if you have been overpaid (by a simple mistake) that you *should* be aware of, they will most likely seek to reclaim it later if discovered in an audit (which it most probably will!) and you won't have a leg to stand on. It's therefore probably better to declare it now and lose it rather than have to repay it later and find yourself short, if you get my gist.
But if you have been overpaid (by a simple mistake) that you *should* be aware of, they will most likely seek to reclaim it later if discovered in an audit (which it most probably will!) and you won't have a leg to stand on. It's therefore probably better to declare it now and lose it rather than have to repay it later and find yourself short, if you get my gist.
So would you feel morally obliged to repay it? As in my conscience says it's the right thing to do, rather than I better had before something nasty happens and they don't waive it?
If it wasn't a Government department, would you feel differently? Such as you were given change for a £50 when you'd paid with a £10?
So would you feel morally obliged to repay it?
No! Image

I never said that. Image
But yes, I would be worried about them spotting their mistake later, leaving me short, having to repay it.

If I'd been given change for £50 when I'd paid with a £10 note, I'd casually walk out the shop, look skywards and say "Thank you!" Image Image Image
Why? Because it's unlikely they'll know who received their mistake so I'd get away with it so I won't have to pay it back.
Would I feel guilty? A bit, but since it's most likely to happen in a large department store or supermarket, I'd tell myself they make enough profits anyway, they won't really miss the £40+ loss. Image
Myrtle, don't worry, I know you weren't suggesting that I was stealing. You raised the question of whether something is morally right or wrong. I'm no longer a church goer but I do think that the ten commandments are good guidance for life, so I would describe them as a moral code. Perhaps at the end of the day it boils down to an individual's perception of "moral"? I'd be interested to hear how others interpret or define it.
With the DWP I think I'd want to be sure that the over payment falls into the criteia that it's their mistake and you don't have to repay it, particularly ifrepaying it was going to cause you and /or your caree hardship.

With the store I'd be inclined to say at the time not because the store can't afford it, but because the cashier /checkout operator who made the mistake could get into trouble, some stores have the policy that if the takings are down the cashier has to repay it, at the very least the cashier would very likely get a written or verbal warning.
Remember this is just talking morally right or wrong.
This is not to do with circumstances, or if repayment would cause hardship, nor the conception that an overpayment is a 'gift'.
The question is
Do you think it morally right to accept something you know you are not entitled to?

Given the following,

All money paid out by any Government department, including the DWP, is raised by taxation, paid by us, that's everyone in the UK. The rich, the poor, the tax dodgers, the tax evaders, everyone pays tax of some description that goes to the Government who decide what to spend it on.
Wrongly given change, as their tills are checked, it's their mistake so the check out person is usually held responsible for shortfall.

Would you change your moral outlook?