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Carers UK Forum • A terrible situation really - Page 3
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Re: A terrible situation really

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:57 pm
by Mandie
Hi Shewolf,
thanks so much for your understanding and advice. I agree. One point is that none of us live near him anyway so we do not know the neighbours nor have any real idea what is going on except for that one-off visit from my brother.

I shall stand resolute as I expect social services will pressure us to get involved.

Re: A terrible situation really

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:01 pm
by Mandie
Hi Scally,
thanks.
We have no idea whether he has made a will or has any money. To be frank we don't wish to know. I assume social services will take whatever he has, sell the house and pay for the nursing care for what remains of his life. I know he was always secretive about his money but now it surely must be used for his care. All of us in the family are secure and happy in our lives, we do not need anything he has got, thankfully. I just still thank god I and all of us got away from him. My mother took a lot of beatings and abuse for 36 years at his hands and us kids had to watch helplessly while we were small. After that we all got away from his poisonous presence.

Re: A terrible situation really

Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:55 pm
by bowlingbun
If none of the family wish to become responsible (for very understandable reasons) then Social Services will appoint someone. In my County I know that there is a "Client Affairs" department to do this sort of work. They will still have to go through the proper procedures. If a will cannot be found after dad passes away, then I imagine that the estate would go to his wife if they had never legally divorced; otherwise divided up between his children. Purely a layman's understanding, from watching many "Heir Hunter" programmes when I was disabled.

Re: A terrible situation really

Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:02 am
by Mandie
Hi Bowlingbun,
oh I love 'Heirhunters'! Great programme, fascinating.

My mum divorced him. We have idea what he has.
Thanks for the information, it is good that someone will take over and sort him out, get him cared for. My brother still has not telephoned me so I am waiting as we must act together on this one, I cannot act alone. It is tough for each of us to remember what that man put us through.

Re: A terrible situation really

Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:31 pm
by SheWolf
Mandie, I can understand why you could well do without this unwelcome trip down memory lane, as he does sound rather unpleasant. But as Scally said:
... you are to be commended as a good humanitarian for going as far as you have.
Your father has probably long forgotten all the damage he inflicted on you and your family, which doesn't negate his guilt for the things he did wrong, and doesn't mean that you are under an obligation to forgive and forget, but if you can find it in yourself to obtain some help for him, despite his past actions, clearly his poisonous ways have not poisoned you. Stay firm and if dealing with social services etc in person proves to be too stressful then stick to written communications (which in any case, as Scally said, are wise to have as back up, in case of difficulties later).

Re: A terrible situation really

Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:13 pm
by jenny lucas
It's one thing to phone the police/social services, and get him sectioned (or whatever) for his own safety. It is QUITE another thing to get any more involved - LET ALONE ending up being involved in his care.

By getting him the help he needs to survive, you have discharged any 'moral imperative' you may feel you have towards him simply as another human being.

As for anything else, he made his choices when he was beating up your mother - now he can live by the consequences, which is to die unloved and ignored by the family he tormented.

Whether he was mentally ill when he was tormenting you is not the point - the point is you have suffered enough at his hands, and need take no further role in his life, however miserable it has become.

To me, the only thing that could possibly change that is if he is capable of remorse and regret, and genuinely begs your forgiveness so he can die 'shriven of his sins' so to speak. (But if he's only saying that without meaning it, just so he can morally blackmail you into caring for him now he needs you, then he can go stuff himself!)

Measure for measure in life - you get back what you hand out, and you reap what you sow. Time for him to do some pretty nasty reaping for all the misery he sowed.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but how else is moral justice to be achieved???! (And if you feel bad about not taking him back in, then I would recommend using your money and efforts for a more deserving candidate through charity work of some kind! If he is genuinely remorseful he would rather you helped a deserving person than an undeserving one like him.)

Re: A terrible situation really

Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:43 pm
by Mandie
HI Jenny,
you are absolutely spot on actually. He does not deserve anything from any of us. Not once over the years has he ever expressed any remorse for his actions, in fact he has denied ever having done anything wrong. I remember him dragging me by my hair as a child and slapping me very hard, then making me stand outside in the cold. The reason he gave at the time was that he found me 'ugly and stupid'. I was 12 years old.

Actually each of us, his children were bright and normal, we always hoped for love from him but never got any. He would attack our mum and we would hear her screams but could do nothing as we were too frightened of him. It is hard to describe what a monstrous dictator he was in our home. After we kids grew up and left we felt guilty that mum had to stay for several more years as she did not have the strength to leave him. Lord knows what beatings she took that she has not told us about. Eventually thank god she left. Since the divorce she has been so happy and peaceful in her own little house and we all visit very regularly and ensure she is comfortable in her old age. She still has nightmares about him though.

I have coped by burying these memories and always thinking of the now and the future, always forging ahead. So it is only when I let myself think back I realise how bad it all was, I am amazed we all managed to get away from him. He still lives in that house but it has become a torment and a hellish mess for him.

So social services are welcome to do whatever they like with him. I suspect he has a lot of money as he was so mean and secretive. We don't want a penny of it, we all have good secure lives of our own. So nobody needs him at all. I would be happy enough to think he does get the care he needs though. Why? Because I am not like him, I am a decent human being. Yet I will not ever allow him to contaminate my brain again with his presence.

Re: A terrible situation really

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:34 am
by SheWolf
Well said Mandie. You clearly suffered a lot at this man's hands, but there is no reason to let him spoil your life now. Do what you feel is necessary to get the ball rolling with social services etc then you can walk away with a clear conscience, knowing you have done the decent thing. Self preservation is key here.

Re: A terrible situation really

Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:04 pm
by Mandie
Hi Shewolf,
thanks.
My brother who went there is going to alert them. See what happens, I shall update on here in due course.
All the best, let's be happy and make the most of what we now have.

Re: A terrible situation really

Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:10 am
by jenny lucas
Mandie, just to say, have you and your siblings (or even your mother?) ever had counselling for what was done to you by him? You may find that when he does die, that all the old anger, fear and grief come welling up, and counselling, if that happens, may help you deal with it and get to closure.

One possible way of looking at the past is this - to think of your father not as the violent cruel monster who had no pity or remorse in him, or as the 'pathetic wreck' he is now (still without pity or remorse in him!), but as the small child he once was.

Thinking of 'evil people' as small children is the way I personally deal with the evil that human beings inflict on each other. Somewhere along the line, your father 'went wrong'. Why and how is not your responsibility, but at some point in his life he was just a little child, wanting love and affection and happiness - he turned 'to the dark side' and became the man he was to you, and that he still is. But he was not born like that, he was not always like that. Once he was a child, just like you (and me, and all of us).

I know that these days, we 'explain' evil by saying that many (all??) evil people are psychopaths, lacking that part of the brain that can empathise with others, and that only finds pleasure in controlling and hurting. Yet we do not know whether such people ,born with such brains (are they?) are always 'destined' to do evil, or whether they could be kept, at the very least, 'neutral' (they say that many scientists are 'pyschopaths' by that definition, but they do not hurt others or get their kicks from controling other human beings and intimidating them, which 'true' psychopaths do, so surely that is a better 'destiny' for a psychopath than becomining someone who enjoys hurting others.)

So even if your father is such a person, ie, born with that part of his brain 'missing', so that he is 'unfeeling', does not necessarily mean that he was inevitably destined to become an adult that enjoyed hurting others as he hurt you and his wife. perhaps with a better, and wiser upbringing, he might have become the kind of 'unfeeling' psychopath that simply becomes a kind of human being like the 'scientist psychos'?! ie, he might never have felt any empathy for anyone else, but he wouldn't have got his kicks from hurting them, either!

But whatever the truth, or otherwise, of why some humans commit evil and enjoy hurting others, I would say that your father is a 'dark soul' and it is safer for you if you stay away from him. Let others, who were not hurt by him, look after him now - your 'duty' is to find peace for yourself, and be free of your tormented past.

Wishing you all the very best, Jenny

PS - in a way, it has probably been helpful to you to see your father so helpless and 'down'. Where is his power now, that once terrorised you so much? Vanished, never to return.... (a friend of mine, whose older husband terrorised her - not as physically as yours did your mother and you, but more 'mental assault' on her - said she saw him again, several years after she found the courage to call the police on him and get free of him, and he was just a 'little old man' - the 'monster' he'd once been was now old and 'pathetic'....she said it really helped her to see him again like that - sort of 'exorcised' him from her bad memories of him.)