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Carers UK Forum • Unemployed bussed in to steward river pageant - Page 2
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Re: Unemployed bussed in to steward river pageant

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:43 pm
by ladybird
Mixed feeling on this one. It all sounds awful but when the facts are examined closely, well...

I don't believe that people should work for nothing. But there are conflicts in the report, initially it says that people were told they risk losing their beneifts then it says that if they didn't go, they wouldn't be considered for a higher paid position working at the Olympics.

Picked up at 11, dropped off at 3..20 mins wait by the roadside and then told to get their head down. So it looks like they had a total of 2 and a half hours of sleeping/not sleeping under the bridge, not the "whole" night. No toilet facilities and a swampy campsite afterwards..sounds like any festival! No seriously, are we supposed to believe that they held it in for 24 hours or went for a pee/poo behind the bushes? Sorry, that doesn't make sense and if it doesn't make sense, it's normally not true.

If anyone was diabetic, I doubt very much if they would have been refused the opportunity to eat and take their insulin..type 2's aren't in any real danger of hypo's if they don't eat. I appreciate what you mean about Health and Safety Charles but I honestly don't believe these guys were at any risk to their health, nor their safety. It wasn't dangerous, just very unpleasant and tiring. They had ponchos and high vis jackets so they weren't exactly unprotected from the rain although the fact they had to get changed in public was totally wrong.

There is also a link to Tomorrows People who do some sterling work for young disadvantaged people and they felt that there is something to be gained from work experience, I tend to agree.
Unfortunately, put in simplistic terms, there is a serious shortage of jobs out there and if people want to stand a chance, particularly those with few if any qualifications, they have to be prepared to show they are willing to go that bit further when it comes to getting work.

There are many, many long term unemployed who cannot find work but far too many who don't want to as they are better off claiming benefits. No, I don't study statistics but just need to look around me where I live, wonderful neighbours but many who are in their thirties and even forties who have hardly worked, some have never had a job at all.

It is important to make people feel valued for their commitment to try and get work and this really is a bit of a downer but truthfully, they haven't gone through some awful ordeal.
I'm fairly sure they won't be suffering from traumatic stress after this experience.!

Re: Unemployed bussed in to steward river pageant

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:50 pm
by diva
Im a bit concerned by some of the attitudes shown on this thread. Not all carers are claiming Carers Allowance. Some are claiming JSA because they have no choice. It only takes one decision from the DWP to decide that the caree does not deserve middle or higher rate care and then the carer has no choice but to claim JSA. And we know that many people are being wrongly denied the benefits that they deserve because it has been well documented on this and other forums and the NON right wing press. So therefore some carers have no choice but to claim JSA and will therefore be mandated into workfare. Bit surprised and disappointed that this doesnt seem to have occured to many. There still seems to be the assumption that you are only a carer if you are on Carers Allowance. Also many unemployed people were employed previously before this recession hit and therefore have paid NI. So if they are then doing workfare (work for your benefits) then surely they have paid for their JSA TWICE over. I think its wrong for people to be turning on each other. The propaganda/ divide and rule agenda this Gov. has seems to be working well.

Re: Unemployed bussed in to steward river pageant

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:25 pm
by ladybird
Diva, I'm sorry but I don't understand your comments re attitudes on the thread?

Seriously, divide and rule propaganda doesn't come into it and it is sweet bu**er all to do with the government what I think, in the great scheme of things I don't think this was some massive traumatic event and I'm sure many of us have been through a lot worse.

Turning on each other doesn't come into it either and I'm not sure where you got that from. I don't necessarily agree with what happened to these people but it's not the great trauma that it's being made out to be. Especially as the people involved in it (as I pointed out) work with young people and specialise in getting jobs for those who struggle with other issues.

Many people are being denied the benefits they deserve, I am in total agreement with you about that. There are also a good many people on JSA who have not worked and have no intention of doing so and that too is a fact.

I get your point, honestly I do but it is just the insinuation that these people have suffered some kind of awful trauma because of this experience..a couple hours under a bridge and then working in the rain? Humiliating yes, correct no but not the end of the world and symptomatic of what this government is all about. Let's keep it in perspective.

Re: Unemployed bussed in to steward river pageant

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:23 am
by charles47
Well, one perspective I'd have on this is: if I were a carer for someone denied the benefits they need (DLA) I could have been in the position of one of these guys: because I was on JSA unable to care because the government determined there's no need to. And unable to do anything about it.

Then a couple of hours becomes a nightmare.

Not suggesting that this is what happened, but it certainly isn't impossible that something like it could happen.

Re: Unemployed bussed in to steward river pageant

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:15 pm
by ladybird
[quote]Well, one perspective I'd have on this is]

Point taken and understood Charles, I agree that one persons perspective is different from the others and I respect yours.
Maybe I am naive but I also rely on the DWP having a certain amount of common sense (alright, I concur..I AM naive! Image ). Usually those on JSA have to attend regular interviews and as far as I am aware, Jobcentre staff have a certain amount of discretion and even if someone is not receiving CA, if they are aware of a caring situation going on, they will not put too much pressure on..bearing in mind I can only speak from my own personal experience.

I was called in for an interview last year after my caree moved out. Because her placement had fallen apart (supposed to be a permanent placement) I was in a very fragile mental state, my mum then became ill and I got a sick certificate from my doc to cover me while I tried to sort myself out.
I was called for another interview this year which I attended, it was with the same person who was supposed to see me before and who had given me some grief about not going for the interview. I explained what was going on, that although I wasn't "officially caring", I was still having to attend meetings re my daughter, travel backwards and forwards across London for that purpose and had the same difficulties re my mum.

She listened, said it was ridiculous to expect me to look for work while the situation was still uncertain and said that I would only be contacted every three months as a formality, given my circumstances there would be no pressure to actively seek work. My husband claims for us both as he receives incapacity benefit, I flagged up on the system as being the non-working partner of someone on a sickness benefit. She also said that if I felt at any time that she could help me with anything regarding job seeking after my long term caring, she would work with me.

I think the problem is that no matter how hard it is, not every eventuality can be covered. Charles, in your professional capacity you may well have come across individuals who are in the situation you describe but I would have thought if that was the case in this particular instance, it would have been that which would have made the headlines and not just the generalised headlines that we saw.

Don't get me wrong, as I have stated I find many of the current policies of this government abhorrent. However, the major problems I have had has been with the non direct departments, the ones that can only be contacted by phone such as ESA or to a much lesser degree, DLA.
I have found that when dealing with someone face to face,there is some leeway and most with JSA have to attend personal interviews every so often.

If anyone else has other personal experiences then of course I would like to hear about it, I always keep an open mind.

Re: Unemployed bussed in to steward river pageant

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:52 pm
by diva

Re: Unemployed bussed in to steward river pageant

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:53 pm
by diva
ive copied and pasted above an old post of mine of my experience of being on JSA as a carer.

Re: Unemployed bussed in to steward river pageant

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:08 pm
by ladybird
Thanks for the link Diva, like I said I am open minded..I can only give my own personal experience and it is good to know there are those like yourself who have suffered the very worse ineptitude. I hope you don't mind if I ask a couple more questions?

I see that all this happened to you back in 2006 under the Labour Government. Has the situation or entitlement to benefits changed since then, is it still New Deal or something else?

I don't have a lot of knowledge about the benefits system but I see that Carers Allowance only comes into play when the caree receives a certain level of DLA. Does your husband not get the DLA with the conditions he has and if not, have you appealed against the decision? Sorry, this may be coming over as sanctimonious but it's really not meant that way..I have a tendency to write the way I think Image

I fully agree that a carer can be a carer without getting the allowance but if it is down to the level of appropriate DLA as to whether you get it or not, then surely it is best to appeal?

I seem to remember that with my daughter's DLA form, if there was more than one professional involved then all the info would be taken into account..it just seems wrong that if he is at risk and needs you with him, then he should get DLA.

Maybe it is a lottery as to whether the JSA advisor listens to what we say, I honestly don't know. What I didn't include in my previous post was that the advisor I had the interview with had originally had one heck of an attitude too and the "scrounger" word was wafting unspoken in the air. I wiped the floor with her then made a complaint to her line manager going via the main call centre in Makerfield. It worked and I think she got her butt kicked from a great height..she was actually contrite when she invited me to interview.

She was nice at the interview and I think I opened her eyes to a few things that she was unaware of, like I cannot get any financial help with fares to go and visit my daughter in her private hospital. She even went to get a form to see if she could find a way to help me and seemed frustrated that she couldn't.

Sorry, I digress. Like I said, thanks for the info Diva, that kind of treatment gives people anxiety problems. Has it changed? Does anyone know?

Just to clarify that I am NOT in agreement with the way these people who were stewarding were treated but do feel that the remarks about the hardship of the time they had was overexaggerated. Again, I assume that if any of these was a carer then that would have completely hit the headlines but there is no mention of it in the article.

Re: Unemployed bussed in to steward river pageant

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:49 am
by charles47
Just to clarify that I am NOT in agreement with the way these people who were stewarding were treated but do feel that the remarks about the hardship of the time they had was overexaggerated. Again, I assume that if any of these was a carer then that would have completely hit the headlines but there is no mention of it in the article.
I think there was some journalistic license in the story to be honest, but the implications are a bit scary.

From what I've seen, the new approach of the current government is to use the hard line of the previous government and get harder. Image

Re: Unemployed bussed in to steward river pageant

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:41 pm
by diva
ladybird if you visit the Boycott Workfare website and urban75.net forums and the Channel 4 news website or search for Chris Grayling on youtube you will see what is actually going on with the Work Programme.
Please take particular notice of the Grayling clip from Channel 4 news which was recorded back in Feb.
My DH cant handle the stress of applying and its too little too late now anyway as since then hes turned 60 and is now on Pension Credit.
Oh and ive had some VERY interesting conversations on another forum with regards to Carers Allowance and workfare. I will try and find that thread and copy and paste it here.