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P.I.P. MOTABILITY W.P.M.S. - Page 3 - Carers UK Forum


Discuss news stories and political issues that affect carers.
Two friends of mine have had letters from local separate Motability dealers to say that they will not be continuing with the scheme.
Fair enough, you would prefer to trust Motability.Just letting you know my experience. The changes for disabled people are not bothering anyone else in the country, nobody else cares.We are not really likely to have a repeat of the poll tax.
Have a look on DWP website, a lot of info there,and you can trawl through the consultations(Government say they are working with Motability,you will see some of the proposed changes there).
Steve's resonse is from the latest consultation,I don't have time to trawl through it all now, but it is easy enough to find online.
We are going to Belgium / France soon and have just been in touch with motability re telephone numbers for R.A.C. cover ...when on the phone i asked them about the new rules which may or may not come into force April 2013 the operator knew of the rules and he said it could end up with thousands of those on mobility benefits having to give up their car he said he thought it did not concern war pensioners mobility supplement benefit as the consultation was for those who will move from D.L.A. onto P.I.P. ..but he said the government have consulted with the board of motability ..and they have reached some kind of aggreement which is ??????????????
.... the operator knew of the rules and he said it could end up with thousands of those on mobility benefits having to give up their car
In that case, I give up. That's very different to the Motability operator who called us today.
I bet if 10 people were to ring Motability, they would all get different answers. Image
Hi all,

Sorry not to get back to you all sooner to try and clarify this and apologies if the blog wasn't clear enough in the first place.

Certainly no offence taken at your questions - there is a lot of confusion about what the Government is planning; and they are rushing out huge amounts of detailed 'regulations' which are not well explained so trying to translate them into plain English can be a bit of a challenge. It is always helpful to be told where things aren't clear.

The source it is in the 'PIP detailed design' consultation which can be downloaded from http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/pip-detailed ... tation.rtf and the relevant points are 4.17 and 4.18 - however these may not shed any light for you on what the policy actually means, as it refers to removing an 'anomaly' in existing DLA regulations which will be replicated in PIP, rather than explaining what the outcome of this will be.

Here is how Disability Benefits Consortium (a group of 50 of the major disability organisations) describe it]"The current proposals will mean many disabled people undergoing routine medical treatments and requiring regular inpatient care will lose access to potentially the only accessible vehicle at their disposal.

Under DLA an agreement with Motability means disabled people can retain vehicles/scooters etc even if in hospital for 28 days in any 365 day period. Under PIP the Government intends for this support to be removed.

Whilst most people will not perhaps receive inpatient care in any given year, it seems likely that, for the 56% of people with four or more health conditions receiving DLA, hospital stays could form part of routine life. Under the current plans however, even needing 3 days of inpatient care per month would see access to a Motability vehicle lost every ten months – potentially requiring a reclamation of the vehicle by Motability and a whole new ‘revolving door’ of assessments for the disabled people affected having to seek PIP again and again.

Case study: David has Sickle Cell Disorder. He gets enhanced rate PIP mobility component, which he uses to lease a car on the Motability scheme. He has a crisis about once a month, usually requiring a hospital admission of approximately four complete days in hospital. Because of the 28-day linking rules, after seven such monthly admissions, David would lose his mobility component. Though he could still get the mobility component on daily rate provisions for the majority of days he spends out of hospital, this would not cover a Motability lease. He would thus lose the car. "[/i]

The problem here is this 'linking rule' - which means that if two hospital stays fall within a 28 day period, even if they aren't consecutive, then they would be treated as consecutive. So a two night stay from January 1st - 3rd would be combined with a two night stay from January 20th - 22nd because they fall within the same 28 day period. If an individual had a sequence of stays which kept falling within a month of each other and totalled over 28 days in a 365 period, then we think this means they would be at risk of losing the right to retain Motability.

Does that help to clear it up?

Thank you Steve.
Clear as mud ..i believe that carers uk and other charity groups have got it wrong ..it does not say 28 days out of 365 ...it says "after 28 days "

4.17 Generally, when a person is an in-patient of a hospital or similar institution, payment of their DLA care and mobility components stop after 28 days (84 days for children under 16). However, if the in-patient is leasing a vehicle through the Motability Scheme, existing provisions allow for the continued payment of the higher rate mobility component for the duration of the Motability lease contract which could be up to three years.
4.18 This provision was introduced in 1996 when the payment of the mobility component to long term hospital in-patients was removed. It was introduced under powers contained in s113(2) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992. It afforded a reasonable easement to those people who were committed to a Motability contract when the new rules came in. Any lease held by somebody entering hospital in 1996 will have long expired but new customers can still benefit
from this provision. The Government announced in the 2010 Spending Review that it intends to address this anomaly by removing this provision in DLA regulations in 2012. It has now been decided that this change should roll out from 2013 alongside the implementation of Personal Independence Payment. This will ensure that all hospital in-patients are treated in the same way, whether they are a Motability customer or not. We have worked closely with Motability on this matter.

4.10 We propose that Personal Independence Payment follows the approach taken by DLA and AA in relation to residency in care homes and in-patient care in hospitals.
4.11 Under these rules, payment of AA or the DLA care component stops after 28 days for residents of care homes but any mobility component continues to be paid to eligible residents.
4.12 Payment of AA and both the care and mobility components of DLA stop after 28 days for in-patients of a hospital or similar institution. The primary intention of these provisions is to prevent the duplication of funding that would otherwise arise if these disability-related benefits were paid at the same time as those costs were being met from public or local funds.
4.13 Payment is made for the first 28 days to pay for any continuing costs and to avoid a break in the claim during short periods of hospitalisation or respite care.
4.14 Those affected by these rules remain entitled to the benefit and payment resumes when they leave the care home or hospital and continue to satisfy eligibility conditions.

as you all know i aint that clever but for the life of me i can not find the section that says 28 DAYS OUT OF 365 can someone produce the document for me to have a look at .. from a personal point of view i hope the war pensioners mobility supplement is safe .when i told the old doll of what they were planning to do she said i would be better off staying at home for a couple of weeks then lose the car ..like many the loss of the car will have a greater impact on her health then an extra night in hospital ...

clip from above...


If you have a Motability agreement in force when you go into hospital, DLA mobility component continues to be paid to Motability for the full term of the agreement. Any balance that would otherwise be paid to you stops after 28 days.

You cannot begin or renew a Motability agreement while you are in hospital. An exception allows the renewal of agreements under the Motability wheelchair scheme provided the new agreement is entered into the day after the old one ends. Note that the mobility component will be paid if you renew a Motability agreement during a temporary absence from hospital.

stops after 28 days not 28 days out of 365 ..are the government going to change the legislation (as detailed above ) for all who enter hospital as inpatients ? or just those with a motability car ? and as i have been informed what of the many who pay for a motability car that is the advance payment for us this was £420 if you lose the car will they refund the advance payment ? and if you do lose the motability car can you after the 365 days reaply for a new motability car? or will you be seen as a "bad risk" and be turned down ?
Clear as mud ..i believe that carers uk and other charity groups have got it wrong ..it does not say 28 days out of 365 ...it says "after 28 days "
Have to say I totally agree.
I've decided I'm not gonna worry about it anymore, for now, since all it is all pure guesswork on the "interpretations". We cannot and should not rely on guesswork, whether of not they are from the "Disability Benefits Consortium", we need proper hard and clear facts.
Therefore I still stand by what I said, that the blog is not accurate enough and is leading to scaremongering.
yep scaremongering is not good for any carer, just depress your even more, on a hot sunny day we can't have that, hey least we saving on the electric bill.
Steve is off for a few days now so will be next week before he can contribute anything further to this.