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Direct Payments Scheme Users Falling Foul Of Employment Law - Page 3 - Carers UK Forum

Direct Payments Scheme Users Falling Foul Of Employment Law

Discuss news stories and political issues that affect carers.
It depends on whether you believe in trying to stay on the right side of the law even if you do not believe that a particular law can be justified or is proportionate. There are people who have a tendency to believe that they will never be caught, some will not but others will and when it comes to tax avoidance HMRC fraud has targets to meet and will obviously try to meet those targets.
Sure they will, and if we have any sense, we will try to make sure that they focus on the big bad guys like the Chinese and Polish gangmasters, and leave us ordinary mortals alone.
This from the HMRC website:
[quote]As a general guide as to whether a worker is an employee or self-employed; if the answer is 'Yes' to all of the following questions, then the worker is probably an employee]http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/employment-status/index.htm
As for anything else, I certainly wouldn't advocate any kind of tax evasion (fraud), which costs the UK more than benefit fraud. And I wouldn't recommend that anyone puts themselves in that position

Direct payments can free up care for people but carers and their carees deserve better protection. One size doesn't fit all but at the moment that's all we have. And too many carers and their carees are being put into legal jeopardy by poorly-informed advice from social workers and others. And ignorance of the law is not a defence. The key is that there are agencies that can help and it's best to use them, if only for the training and support.

But never ever think "I'm too small" for the tax man. You're the easier target to catch.
A reminder that the thread started off about what was wrong with employment law and practice and suggestions for how it could be improved - all very legitimate, as opposed to advocating breaking the law.
All i was asking Gavin was advice on the subject of using self employed carers. i never intended to do anything that was illigal. the reason for asking for advice was so i staid within the law.
Its a whole new world for us carers employing people on behalf of our careers, and we need all the advice we can get.

i do feel a bit offended by your comments.
Pam, I do not think that Gavin was responding to your post. I found it preferable when employing a PA to employ her as an employee and use a payroll service. If you have a heavy caring role this is a very cost-effective means of avoiding the additional work and responsibility of ensuring that tax and NI contributions are correctly deducted and holiday and sick pay are dealt with, when the PA leaves the payroll service also calculates and pays any untaken holiday entitlement and, of course, you do not have to worry about whether the person you are employing is correctly paying tax and NI contributions and whether you will be held liable if they are not.
Pamr, there's no doubt that your post was legitimate and there was no criticism from Gavin: he was effectively agreeing that the thread had sidetracked down a road that was promoting actions that could easily break the law - intentionally or otherwise.

You brought up a legitimate subject that has been legitimately debated. The big issue is how does the law treat people who work as care workers? And if they do not work for an agency, have only one "customer", and their working pattern is determined by the person paying them, then they have to be treated as an employee, not as self-employed.
Hi Pam,

My post was not directed at anyone in particular - please do not take offence.

Best wishes

[quote]Pamr, there's no doubt that your post was legitimate and there was no criticism from Gavin]

I thought Gavin was getting at me!

If you employ someone for lots of regular hours every week, or if it is paid for by direct payments, then you are better off going legit, but if your neighbour helps out with your gardening and you pass him the odd note or even better, a bottle of whatever he fancies, who is to know any better? I know people who p[ay in ASDA vouchers or groceries, there are various ways of working around.

What annoys me is that most really wealthy people like footballers have lots of loopholes to avoid tax like getting their wages paid into offshore trusts - they actually pay far less tax than we do.