CARERS STRATEGY 2019 ? All The Build Up To The Non Event Of This Decade ? A White Flag Raised Even Before It's Announced

[Chris From The Gulag]

However, David Mowat stated that the strategy would be “cost neutral”, as he believes, “it’s not about money

On second thoughts , prepare for the worst.

Perhaps a little education is needed here.

Okay carer army , all 6 million+ together .... " What's OUR number one priority ? "

A clue ?

To at least eat one meal a day , and turn on one bar on the electric fire during the winter , what do you need ? "

Try asking the same question at your local nursery school and see if they come up with the same answer.

Consider any group of animals at a zoo. Cut their rations , and turn off the heat during the winter. Gather any group of zoologisis together and ask them what they need to do as a first priority. And , the keepers soon supply the animals' needs. Not to do so would leave them open to prosecution.

Carers ? Perhaps the same " Rights " as zoo animals to be added to the List ?

Over a decade ago , I posted on the need for the medical profession to check for malnutrition amongst carers. Said posting met with scorn. Fast forward to 2017. Same concern met with scorn ?

No damage was done to this laptop while posting this comment.

Plenty of verbal abuse ... perhaps ?

There again , what language do these " People " understand ?

[Chris From The Gulag]

Tick tock.

Tick tock.

Time does fly ... any news / snippets of the future fate of 6 million + carers ?

There is nothing worse than old news ... in this case , 6 million + carers will make an exception.

Are our rations to remain the same ?

Or was Prof. Clement's warning of an ill wind indeed , correct ????

http://www.carersuk.org/forum/news-camp ... arer-28018

Carers UK were there ... 15 March 2017 .... but they are not telling ...

I wonder why ?

Why does the word .... CONTEMPT ... spring to mind ?

Can't be us , we save this country £ 132 BILLION.

Perhaps being carers is contempt enough ... for some ?

.... and the queues at the food banks are increasing ....

Tick tock.

Tick tock.

[Chris From The Gulag]

David Mowat MP, Minister for Community Health and Care, said:

"Carers make an invaluable contribution to society — and I was delighted to join colleagues in promoting Carer Friendly communities.

We are already working hard to support them and have introduced huge reforms, including a duty for local authorities to assess any carer who requires support.

But we can all play a part to make sure our communities are carer friendly — I commend the Carers Week campaign to raise awareness of this vital issue."[

Earlier this year , a foretaste of what's to come !

Again , what's really being said BETWEEN THE LINES ????

Distancing from Central Government ( CA gone , DPs to replace question again ? ) and increasing problems in the application of the Care Act.

" Really ? I didn't know that ... "



Snake oil again ... don't read the label , invite the seller to drink it first !

Carers Day in the House ... presumably within " Carers Week " .... a week of mourning for support services now lost forever ? ... postponed due to the general election ?

Mourning ? Very apt , lost on anyone reading this who is NOT a carer , or ever has been !!!

Probably 1 / 2 even 3 million carer casaulties since the first wave of cutbacks started in 2004 !!!

Anyone know ... or even care anymore ?

Could be interesting if WE manange to rewrite the scipt ?????

" Okay guys , listen up ! You've all got one of these ( Lord Kitch poster held up ) ... what are we going to do about it ? None of you are leaving until we all agree to actually do something beyond yawning and trying to stay awake as we usually do on occasions such as this one. And please , no playing space invaders ! "

If only ....

Still , a paper aeroplane flying competion thanks to our Lord Kitch posters will be better than nothing ?

[Chris From The Gulag]

Following postings on the BIG two ... Carers Concessionary Travel / 21 Hour Rule ... Campaigns Sections ... looks like the Carers Strategy will be postponed until September , awaiting new runners and riders in the House.

Carers Day in the House ? Probably postponed indefinately.

The Voice might confirm in their own news section at the top.

Almost like waiting for the cards to be turned with the next six months rent in the pot ... and we are holding a mere pair ... and our opponent is holding five cards which were not originally dealt to him !!!

Diarise forward ....

[Chris From The Gulag]

For the record , an extract from CarerWatch ... 24 October 2008 ... Carers Strategy , and the meetings held before the fatefall decision in 2009 that literally murdered our hopes for a generation.

Just spend a few minutes reading ... anything like this before we are told our likely fate for the next 5 / 10 years , probably in the autumn ?

This just a few Shocked notes from yesterday……a bit jumbled in places but hopefully will give you an idea of what took place.

From the list given which named all the representatives attending I was one of 4-5 carers with a few carer centres also represented.It was a stake holder event .

No one written off - Newcastle closing event 24th Oct 2008 approx 130-150 attended

Speakers…

James Purnell Secretary of State for Works and Pensions

Prof Paul Gregg presents key issues for the Conditionality review

Jacquie Wood DWP Welfare Reform Green Paper team

Martin Swales Strategic Director of development for North Tyneside council

Phil Friend Chair of Radar Comments on the green paper and its implications for disabled people.

Q & A with Mark Fisher Benefit Strategy Director DWP.

The event was opened and then James Purnell spoke for about 20-25 mins….summary of some of the points below…..

Government will be pushing Pathways more

Give more support will change lives for the better

Conditionality - built on high expectations of the individual

Employers - change of culture needed and employers role to be increased for the disabled

Double access to works benefits

See potential rather than disability

More flexible/subsidised employment for the disabled

Changes to be made to the delivery of services

Try free up voluntary sector

Payment by results - incentives to providers

Welfare system as it is is hard for carers to navigate

Paul Gregg working on review of conditions

Not proposing any changes to conditions for carers but creating a simpler system

Reassurance will be no difference in way government treat carers - just a change in benefit

Job search for all unemployed to be increased

Holland / Scandanavia have high level expectation along with high level support.

Questions from the floor to Purnell

1. About managing processes of companies helping ‘clients’ look for work

Disabed access audit needed before provided with a contract

2. ACAS question .. I missed answer

3. If disabled have a right to their identity why not carers.Soc services do not have suitable cover for the hours needed …CA a disgrace for the work involved.

Answer …..

If we take a step back and look at the reasons…..people living longer,more disabled children surviving means cost of service increasing and demand outstripping the budgets given

No easy solution,wait for outcome of the consultation on long term care

Needs a fundamental look at the situation.

4. ( mine ) Transferring carers to JSA is an insult when they work for a minimum of 35 hours per week ,also suitable respite not available and LA’s tightening criteria constantly.If waiting for outcome of care consultation why propose these changes now ahead of their findings.

No 4 was submitted but not answered

5. If a disabled person obtains a job and the carer loses their CA,will this be protected if the job does not work out?

Needs to be looked at

6.. Gentleman from mental health….Will the 2 yr period where benefits are protected for those disabled moving in to work continue…

Answer…yes

Other general questions included ..

about the government distancing itself from being accountable

What will happen for those with fluctuating illnesses

How will sanctions be implemented.

Paul Gregg

Personalisation…

How it can be developed,devolved and delivered

Move away from a traditional welfare state

Reform necessary

Encourage a progressive,effective system

Design with a safety net

Involving the voice of the individual

Co-herence - elements need to be working in the same direction

Development of support services

A process of contact and a programme designed for support

Case worker to assess any barriers to work

E.S.A. - elements for reform

An individual to test their own needs

Put forward programme of participation - agreed programme - personalised package

He is not part of the DWP but doing a review of points in the Green paper

Personal budgets

Advocacy to access work or co-budgets from different pots

Overhaul all rules and regulations for all benefits

Working towards a SWAB - Single Working Age benefit.

Certain groups will be unable to look for work so a system needed that recognises this

Plans to put flesh on the bones of JSA

Jacqui Woods about purpose of Green Paper

Consultation been going on 13 weeks ending in Newcastle.

Had web chats , used YouTube with videos which included BSL

Best website for questions was net.mums.com over 300 questions

Support disabled people into work e.g extra support and training

Opportunities for providers

More details on ‘work for benefit’

Martin Swales

Create employment - provide training for skills

Drive change forward

Employer led leadership

Simplified benefit system and reward for responsibility taken by the individual.

Phil Friend RADAR

Still major problems finding and keeping work

Support for people who become disabled whilst at work to stay in work

Disabled not only want jobs they want careers

Should be no discrimination

Enforcement of DDA

Need incentives to get and keep employment

Built in soc services law regarding those who cannot work

Tackle employment prejudice and fear

Language and rhetoric to be addressed…..government not to talk of ‘work shy’

Using threats would be counter productive as would increase fear

Liberate disabled people from poverty

Risks of greater poverty

Comments from the floor

For some work is not the issue but having enough money from work is.Unemployment is driven by low wages too.

What about 16 hour ruling for those in subsidised housing

Why should people go out to work to be worse off

Transition is needed in most situations not be cut off from benefits right away

Employers are saying the costs of employing a disabled person can be excessive

Break for lunch to be followed by work groups.

5 different categories,I had chosen the following….

Work shop 1 much more informal approx 22-25 people,easier to get questions asked

Benefit reform and Simplification 3 reps from DWP

This workshop will address:

Stakeholder issues on the abolition of Income Support
Carers concerns for JSA and transference
Potential single benefits
Over 1300 responses been received re Green paper.

This was where the issues for carers really came out in the open…

Utter disgrace way carers are treat
Carers already do an incredibly undervalued job
Appalling to even think of making carers lives more difficult
Insulting to carers expecting them to be classed as unemployed
Lack of available/suitable respite
No thought gone in to these proposals

Replies from DWP fellas

Only those carers in receipt of IS will be affected
JSA will be modified so no extra requirements
Carers can volunteer for back to work support
Rates will be same - no one will be worse off
They realise from the many responses already received being critical about this proposal that there is a lot of anger and worry
No one will be forced to look for work if a carer

More comments from the group….

Emphasising how carers are not unemployed and therein cannot be moved to an unemployment benefit
If JSA to be same amounts,no extra conditions,why the hell propose to move them at all.
Its not just a case of asking for support/training to get a job but accessing cover for care from Local Authorites which is just not there.
This government says the words to recognise carers but their actions show otherwise.

Move on to next work shop and for me this was….

Personalisation and Conditionality
This work shop will address:
Identification of Stake holder needs
What we mean by passive to active
Reassurance on why we are changing
Disability focus : reasonable adjustment

Again about 20-24 people,a few different faces from the 1st work shop I did.

Comments from DWP reps

Income Support in time will be abolished and so those in receipt of CA and IS proposed move to JSA
Those in receipt of Incapacity Benefit and IS to move to ESA which starts Monday 27th October 2008
Further in the future ideas to introduce a single income replacement benefit for people of working age with necessary top ups when needed
Also look at Industrial Injuries Disablement / Bereavement benefits
What is passive to active?
Paid work is the route to Independence,health and well being for most people

Comments from the group :

How will new claims for CA be identified if DWP are setting up a One point entry for all benefits.
In many cases DWP take wrong information,this would have a negative affect for carers if placed in wrong group of claimants
Computer systems are not modified yet to recognise carers
Carers are not passive ,they already work
Carers need kept separate within the benefit system
If DWP are working towards a SWAB, where does that leave carers now and in the future.
Carers are unique and deserve payment to recognise that

It was pretty heated at this point but civil if that makes sense.I know for a fact I got up the nose of one of the DWP fellas but tough.A few more exchanges took place and then there was a beauty comment….

Maybe carers should change their mindset,after all its only a name on the tin( JSA ) and the importance lay in what was delivered.

More comments were threw back at him and then it was asked how would carers feel about moving to ESA if that came up as a proposal.At this point a gentleman from a Mental health group spoke up, to put the point across that carers do not belong on either JSA or ESA and if this government truly recognises their worth they will be treat as such and remain seperate within the benefit system

*************************************************************


James Purnell made no impression on me at all and to be perfectly frank none of the DWP reps did either.They hear what is being said but they neither listen or understand.They are there purely to push forward the governments vision.

This issue is far greater than carers possibly being moved from CA to JSA, as the governments’ vision for the future is a SWAB - Single Working Age Benefit. A one point entry with single data to access any benefits and top ups.

The day itself was an experience.At first I felt out of my depth but I am glad I went.

The government have 3 months to respond but yesterday it was suggested they will try for sooner.

I doubt I will get invited to any more Rolling Eyes

If I remember anything else or find more notes I will post them.

As an aside,some of those who attended yesterday….

Many reps from the local councils of the North east
Tyne and Wear city region employment consortium
Many from Job centre plus
Barnados Housing project Northumberland
About 4-5 carer centres managers
Drug Action teams
Durham Uni
Newcastle Uni
ME group
Joint Strategy Units
Mental health group managers
Learning and skills council
Age concern
Voluntary organisations Network
Disability groups ……………….and others

Needless to say , we sacrificed our Trawler for the day as it was on her patch.

Decontamination did not take too long although the black and white stains remained unmovable !

Eternal thanks from the rest of the inmates on CarerWatch !

How many meetings over the years have been reported in a similiar way by our supporting organisations when meeting with the DWP / Ministers ?

Therein lies just one difference in perspective ... as to how carers should be informed !!!!!!!!

[Chris From The Gulag]

Report on Carers Radio , an exchange between Barbara Keeley ( Shadow Minister for Social Care ) and Jackie Doyle - Price ( representing Jeremy Hunt , Minister ) .... in PDF. format :

http://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/575393_59 ... 815c66.pdf

Worth reading if only for the rhetoric used !

" Is it on ? "

" No , lobbed in bin / in pending tray marked " To be done " ... by someone else ... when we lose the next election ? "

In the latter event , the only thing that will change is the players involved will swop seats ... same question , same answer ?

Still , given the players involved , what else would any reader expect ?

Our Lord Kitch poster with OUR list ?

Nowhere to be seen !

[Chris From The Gulag]

Brief update ... thanks to our usual source , the Guardian :


https://www.theguardian.com/social-care ... ity-missed

Government plans to reform England's social care are an opportunity missed.

Long-awaited green paper will be published by next summer, but will focus just on care for older people.

At last we have some details of the government’s long-awaited consultation on reform of long-term care. But let’s be clear: this will not be a social care green paper.

Plans for the consultation were announced on Thursday in a written statement to parliament by Damian Green, the first secretary of state. He did call it a green paper – something that had been in doubt – and said it would be published “by summer recess 2018”. Recess is likely to be late July.

It looks like its appearance will be more than a year, then, after the general election in June at which the Conservatives’ ideas for care funding reform were so disastrously mishandled, almost certainly contributing to the loss of their majority, and the subsequent Queen’s speech, which promised that the new government “will work to improve social care and will bring forward proposals for consultation”.

But this is a different prospectus than that implied by that pledge. In one sense, as Green said, it is broader than social care services and broader than funding alone: it will “incorporate the wider networks of support and services which help older people to live independently, including the crucial role of housing and the interaction with other public services”.

In another sense, however, it is far narrower. Care for younger adults, which accounts for almost half of all council spending on adult social care and includes the fastest growing element, learning disability, is to be excluded from the green paper. Instead, it will be reviewed by “a parallel programme of work” led jointly by the departments of health and communities and local government.

Given this, many sector bodies that had been stressing the central importance of having a green paper considering social care as a whole have been notably muted in their response. Even the usually vocal Voluntary Organisations Disability Group, representing not-for-profit providers of services for disabled people, has welcomed the announcement as “a step forward”, while cautioning that disability provision must not be sidelined.

Reaction on social media has been more robust. Calls for an all-age approach were supported even by some of those named as advisers on the green paper, while Victor Adebowale, the crossbench peer and chief executive of care provider Turning Point, simply tweeted #notgoodenough.

Other critics have pointed out that there is no care users’ or workers’ representation among the 12 experts, who will “provide advice and support engagement in advance of the green paper”. Trade union Unison branded this “a huge mistake”.

Carers’ groups were meanwhile left wondering what had happened to the carers’ strategy promised by the government in March 2016. It had been thought it might be rolled into the green paper, but Green’s statement made no mention of carers.

The accepting response of the sector establishment to the proposals is, no doubt, a reflection of relief that there is to be any kind of green paper at all. The focus on older people may finally point to a way forward on the vexed issue of care funding that has been becalmed in the muddy waters of politics since the Dilnot commission reported in 2011.

The 12 experts, ranging from statistician Sir Andrew Dilnot himself to Caroline Abrahams, charity director of Age UK, and Martha Lane Fox, the crossbench peer and dotcom businesswoman who seems to pop up on most government reviews, may also prove able to shape the consultation purposefully before it goes live next summer.

However, anyone with an interest in social care for younger adults will be left trusting that the “parallel programme of work” proves meaningful and that the sector stays in one piece. The spectre of the division of the former cradle-to-grave social services function into adult and children’s services in 2004 hangs heavy in the air.

Mmmm ... how can ANY discussion on social care take place WITHOUT sizeable contributions from carers ?

Earlier posting spelt out what happened almost a decade ago !!!

Our supporting organisations will probably have an opportunity ... why not carers themselves ?

After all , it is OUR future on the line ... NOT theirs.

Lord Kitch lays out what we need ... any included in our supporting organisations' policies ?

One to merely diarise forward.

[Chris From The Gulag]

Included on this thread as anything connected to the Carers Strategy will affect us ... whether anyone asks US or not :


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 62336.html

Senior Tories demand cross-party action on social care crisis, warning Theresa May has kicked issue ‘into long grass’.

Move comes after the Government broke a promise to outline reform plans by the end of this year – shelving a consultation until next summer.

Senior Tories are demanding cross-party action to tackle the social care crisis, one protesting that Theresa May has kicked the issue “into the long grass”.

Former cabinet ministers are among 90 MPs of all parties that have written to the Prime Minister, calling on her to set up a joint convention, arguing the Government has laid bare its inability to act alone.

The move comes after ministers broke a promise to outline reform plans by the end of this year, shelving a consultation until next summer.

Social care policy has been frozen since Ms May was forced to axe her election plans to make homeowners pay more for their care, after they were dubbed a “dementia tax”.

Now the letter from MPs urges her to work with all parties, the public and health and care staff to find a solution, warning: “The need for action is greater now than ever.”

One-third of the MPs who have signed the letter are Conservative, including former cabinet ministers Nicky Morgan and Andrew Mitchell and Sarah Wollaston, chairwoman of the Health Select Committee.

Ms Wollaston said the immediate aim was a “down payment of £4bn” in next Wednesday’s Budget, warning it would be disastrous if the sector had to fund higher pay from within its existing funds.

“The Chancellor must listen to the clear warnings about the consequences for patients if we do not provide an immediate uplift in this Budget,” she said.

After that, it was vital that ministers “stop planning for health and social care in separate silos as this approach is setting us up for failure”.

“Current plans to kick social care into the long grass again, and to separate planning for young and older adults, create even further fragmentation,” the MP warned.

“The simple reality of hung parliament means that all our constituents will be failed if long-term plans for NHS and care funding do not command cross-party support, so better to take a joint approach to planning from the outset and actually deliver.”

Labour MPs who have signed the letter include Liz Kendall, Chuka Umunna, Hilary Benn, Frank Field and Caroline Flint.

Among the Liberal Democrats backing it are party leader Vince Cable, Sir Ed Davey, Tim Farron and Norman Lamb, the Lib Dem health spokesman.

On Thursday, Damian Green, the First Secretary of State, quietly released a statement deferring the publication of a social care green paper until summer 2018.

Chancellor Philip Hammond had promised the move by the end of 2017 – before the election U-turn over the “dementia tax” intervened.

Meanwhile, council leaders have highlighted the ticking timebomb of a £2.3bn annual funding gap by 2020.

Niall Dickson, chief executive of the NHS Confederation, which represents healthcare organisations, also said promises to reform funding were being “kicked down the road”.

But the Government insisted a cross-party convention was not needed, because MPs would be consulted on social care next year.

A spokesman said: “We have announced a cross-government green paper on care and support for older people with input from a group of independent experts.

“We recognise that there is broad agreement across Parliament that reform for social care is a priority and look forward to hearing a range of views.”

One we have to keep an eye !

I can only assume that we will be featured somewhere down the line in all this ?

If so , wouldn't it be " Nice " if we received an occasional update from our supporting organisations ?

I would be truly amazed if they are just sitting back watching the world go round rather than participating somewhere in this ongoing Issue ?

After all , without us , social care as we know it would NOT exist ... period.

[Chris From The Gulag]

The Observer's view on the Social Care crisis ... posted under this thread as anything to do with social care also reflects on us :


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are-crisis

The Observer view on the social care crisis.

Observer editorial.

This great looming disaster was ignored in the budget

It beggars belief that the chancellor failed to mention social care once during his budget speech last Wednesday. For well over a year, there has been an overwhelming consensus that Britain’s care system for older people and disabled adults is on the brink of crisis. Yet Philip Hammond simply left it out. His omission has rightly attracted criticism from two former Conservative health secretaries in the Observer today.

Means-tested support for social care is provided by councils, which have seen government grants cut significantly in recent years. As a result, council spending on social care has fallen by up to 30% in some areas since 2010. Three independent health thinktanks have produced a joint estimate that Wednesday’s budget will leave a £2.5bn funding gap by 2019.

This will put huge pressure on the NHS, as people who can’t access care deteriorate and end up in hospital wards instead. And it will leave millions without the care they need. The number of people getting state help with the costs of their care has fallen by more than a quarter since 2011, while the charity AgeUK says there are 1.2 million older people who struggle without help to carry out everyday tasks such as washing and dressing.

That this leaves older people and their families in an intolerable position has not been enough to spur the government into action. An ageing population and the rising cost of providing care mean we should be spending more, not less. Yet we are further than ever away from a long-term funding solution.

A mix of short-term opportunism and political missteps has made social care increasingly toxic in the last decade. In 2010, Labour plans to introduce a charge on estates to fund a National Care Service were branded a “death tax” by the Conservative opposition. Earlier this year, ill-thought through plans in the Conservative manifesto that would have required individuals to run down all their assets, including their house, to £100,000 before state support would kick in, were labelled a “dementia tax”.

Instead of offering solutions, ministers are saying families need to do more for their older relatives. This is hopelessly insufficient: the increasing incidence of complex conditions such as dementia mean growing numbers will need professional support, not just care from their loved ones. Government has nothing to say on how families can square the circle of being expected to put off retirement for longer, with caring for elderly parents.

The government has announced another consultation on social care funding . It’s the last thing we need. Since 1997, there have been no fewer than four independent commissions and five government papers on funding reform. We already have the answer: as a society, we need to be spending more to ensure people experience a humane end of life.

There are different ways to do this, but some are more racked with problems and injustices than others. Today, the Observer reveals the government has told local authorities it has dropped its plans to impose a cap on care costs in 2020. Good riddance. The idea was that people would be expected to cover their own care costs until they reached a cap of £72,000, and that they would insure themselves against these costs with private insurance.But this plan was always flawed.

Specialist insurers have warned the government there is no market for this type of insurance. Basic human psychology means people are reluctant to save for their retirement income, let alone pay to insure an outcome half a lifetime away that they simply hope won’t happen. Insuring for long-term care costs is also difficult because there are huge levels of uncertainty about what will happen to those costs decades down the line. At any rate, introducing a cap without properly funding councils to provide care for people who meet the cap is pointless.

This year’s Conservative manifesto proposal is deeply unfair. Why should those unlucky enough to develop care needs in later life have to meet the costs of care, while the luckier escape altogether? The proposal leaves the anomaly that someone who develops cancer gets the costs of their care covered by the state, while someone who gets dementia has to pay up themselves.

If anything, the case for funding social care along the same lines as the NHS is even stronger than in the case of healthcare. It would be expensive, but there are plenty of ways it could be collectively funded by affluent baby boomers; for example, through inheritance tax or a higher rate of income tax for high-income pensioners enjoying the fruits of overly generous final salary pension schemes that are funded by younger workers.

The real block is not money – it is a lack of political bravery. While Brexit ticks on, social care remains perhaps the most neglected aspect of our social infrastructure. There’s no greater emblem of the toxic stasis at the heart of this government than its failure to fix it.

Not a bad take on the problem ... even mention of us as a byeline.

Diarise forward to the summer ... unless , of course , that Perfect Storm arrives beforehand ?

[bowlingbun]

I've just skimmed this lot, interesting to see that Learning Disability is the fastest growing part of Adult Social Care but will be excluded from the Green Paper.
As the mum of someone with LD, I'm not surprised that the cost is increasing. Firstly, more ill bables are surviving, and many who used to come under the wing of the NHS are now under the wing of Social Services. The most damaged used to be funded by the Independent Living Fund, like my son, but that's been transferred over to SSD as well. His hours have been cut by over 10 hours a week since, with no justification. SSD were supposed to be given the money to cover ex ILF claimants, but it wasn't ring fenced and is now spent elsewhere instead!
Do the government even realise this?!
"Supported Living" gives far more one to one care, unqualified staff who don't even know how to cook. In theory he's part of the community now, in reality, he lives in splendid isolation.
He is fit as a flea, but brain damaged, his needs are very different from a chair bound little old lady with mobility problems.