At wits end with smelly 82 year old mum!

[mumofone]

I don't know what to suggest bit I understand a bit how you feel. When My Dad moved up he lived with us for a bit. He had not had a shower or bath for a long time and he did smell! My son found it particularly difficult as he is very sensitive to smells and things. I know his carer has quite a battle with him to get him to shower weekly (which is essential really to avoid infections as he has a catheter). It's one of the reasons he wants to move out of sheltered housing as he thinks that he won't have to shower or bath when he's in the bungalow!

[SheWolf]

Hi Tony,
I'm wondering how you're getting on with this thorny problem. I've made some progress with my mother and thought I'd post an update.

The shower was installed and sealed just before Good Friday. The sealant had to be left a good 24 hours to dry properly, then my sister arrived for a visit and was the first one to use the new shower. She was very impressed with it and was encouraging Mum to use it but Mum was resisting.

I cunningly extracted a promise from Mum that the next day, after my sister had returned home, she would have a shower. The next day arrived, but Mum was resisting with every excuse she could think of. She hadn't had a bath in months and hadn't washed her hair for about 3 weeks. I took her into the bathroom and showed her the controls and how gentle the warm water was. I showed her the stool and the grab rail and assured her I would be outside the door whenever she needed me. Still she refused. I took her into the bedroom and we sat on the bed. I cajoled and tried every argument I could think of to persuade her. I said it was a health issue and I could not let it go on any longer, then said that I would not leave until she'd had a shower. She said "You have to go to work this evening." I said, "I'll ring them and explain my elderly parent is ill. I have all the time and patience in the world. I will wait 4, 6, 8, 10 hours or HOWEVER LONG IT TAKES until you cave in, so please just co-operate." She was shocked at this tactic. I then got a vest out of her drawer and asked her to take her top off and put that on for some privacy. She said, "OK, I'll change my underwear but I'm not going in the shower". I said - "we'll see". Once the vest was on (which was long enough to cover her nether regions too), I reached underneath and unhooked her bra...that was when a large pile of dead flakey skin fell out of it onto her lap. She was really shocked and said "What's that?!?" I explained it was her dead skin, all collected in her bra due to her not bathing or washing it away. She fell silent, took off the rest of her clothes then got in the shower. From start to finish the persuasion took 90 minutes. The shower only took 10 minutes. I was able to help her and spray the water in all the hard to reach places without her being totally naked. When she stepped out I wrapped a big towel around her and gave her a big hug, told her how proud I was of her for trying out something new and frightening to her, and said I hoped next time she would not be so worried about showering.

She has now agreed to take a shower every 2 weeks. Time will tell, but I feel that together we have jumped a massive hurdle. At times I felt like I was psychologically bullying Mum a bit, and I really hated having to do it, but feel it was the right thing on this occasion. Afterwards I dried her hair and made her a coffee then she sat in her cosy dressing gown relaxing, and agreed she felt better. A good result.

The next day when I called round she had got dressed and seemed quite happy. She said she didn't actually enjoy the shower as sometimes she felt a bit chilly (though when I turned up the temperature she complained it was too hot). I guess she would always prefer soaking in a bath to having a shower, but she was doing neither and the bath had to be changed for a shower cubicle because my father can't climb in and out of the bath anymore. I am thinking of getting some extra heating for the bathroom (it only has one small radiator) so that may make it cosier for her next time. Unfortunately Dad has now been admitted to hospital with pneumonia and a urinary tract infection so that is something else to worry about, but just thought I'd share my story with you as it shows that sometimes taking a tough line can pay dividends. Good luck to everybody having similar issues with their elderly parents.

[Myrtle]

A very good result, well done

[SheWolf]

Thanks Myrtle. I find all this stuff a bit of a moral minefield, because in a way I think that people have a right to be dirty if they want to, but on the other hand when their hygiene is neglected for months there are health issues to consider too and letting her get a skin infection would not be doing her any favours. For me it's a balancing act. I think some people would say I crossed a line, while others would say I was being cruel to be kind and the end justified the means. In any case I'm just hoping I won't have to go to those lengths again.

[Myrtle]

There is dirty and then there is putting your health at risk. having had such a good experience this time, next should be much easier as you can remind your Mum how good it felt

[bowlingbun]

Well done. It's always much nicer to shower/bath if the room is warm and cosy. I've recently had my garage converted to a downstairs bedroom with ensuite for me, due to bad knees. The ensuite is only just over 2m x 2m, it has an electrically heated towel rail, if I turn it on about an hour before my bath the towels are super warm and toasty. I give myself a severe telling off if I forget and the towels are cold! Above the door I have a Dimplex fan heater, which heats the room very quickly. My other decadent treat is to stand right below it when I'm drying off. I wonder if mum would be tempted more with these available? Both towel rail and fan heater were new, bought from an ebay shop, very cheaply, and comply with all the electrical regulations for bathrooms. The main limitation would be where the nearest power supply was.

[Tony Malpaso]

It was good to hear you were successful in getting your mother into the new shower and I think you deserve an award for bravery above and beyond the call of duty in the face of extreme adversity. Unfortunately I have to report my dilemma is no nearer a solution and after my last frank talk with her she has stopped coming to my house. My wife and I still visit and keep a check on her, cleaning, gardening and keeping the fridge up to date, although very often she will be out walking. It seems that she is just as determined as ever to avoid taking a bath and I no longer have the will to keep on perusing a lost cause.

[michael parker]

Well done.There is no challenge greater than convincing a parent that they need to do something for their own good.

[Tony Malpaso]

She’s back and let herself in yesterday stinky as ever bearing gifts of chocolates and biscuits, luckily we had just finished diner and she only stayed long enough to eat an ice cream then left refusing a lift home leaving the usual stench trail. She must be very lonely but that’s the price you pay for smelling like a medieval peasant. On my way to see her this evening I found her making her way to my house again. I stopped and offered her a lift back home and told her we were about to eat dinner. She took the hint and said it was OK, she would carry on with her walk and I could go home and eat dinner. I know I said I would not let her in my car again, but for Christ sake she is my mother and its a very hard situation to deal with.

[Parsifal]

I must confess that I am totally bemused, what is more important, having a good relationship with a parent who is smelly but does not seem to have any health problems as a result of not washing, bathing, etc. or losing what was a good relationship with him/her because their behaviour is socially unacceptable and they smell unpleasant when in close proximity?

And, no, I am not smelly, I have always bathed/showered every morning, and neither is my home, it is always clean and tidy, but I have had experience of a neighbour who was in his early 70s, lived alone, obviously did not wash or change his clothes and was rather smelly too. I always invited him for a cup of tea if I was working from home, either the windows were open if it was summer or I opened them after he left in winter, and at Christmas, to everyone else's dismay, I invited him to spend Christmas Day with us, he turned up bathed, in a smart, clean suit and did not smell at all. I have also, at times, had to deal with some often lengthy bouts of extremely unpleasant smells which were outside someone's control.

I think that it is important to remember that some older people did not have bathrooms until well into the 1960s and beyond and that bathing was not seen as so important as it is now, rare visits to the bath-house sufficed when they could afford the price of bathing; that some older people lose the acute sense of smell which they had when younger; that some, not simply older people, can behave in seemingly incomprehensible ways when their lives undergo changes which effect them negatively, and also that trying to make someone do something is often the best way of ensuring that they do the opposite.

But most of all I think that it is important to weigh up what one is going to lose against what one will gain and to lose a good relationship with a family member because they smell and refuse to do anything about it for me is not worth the gain but that is just me.

[ladybird]

I guess it comes down to what each of us finds acceptable, a relationship with a relative is at stake but so is a marriage! well, I overdramatise but as Tony has pointed out his wife has to deal with the fallout from how his mum chooses to lead her life and that is just not fair.

His mum knows exactly what she is doing and is quite content to be a "dirty mare" which of course is totally her right but I think to expect family to have to put up with filth in their own home is unreasonable and is obviously causing resentment and bad feeling.

I would also be concerned if his mum became ill, got an infection or something of that ilk, how on earth would she manage then, for the sake of her health she would have to clean up her act.

I can only comment from a distance, I am very lucky never to have had that problem with my own spotless mum (apart from when she was very ill and couldn't do anything). Her place is clean and she has always been clean even though her mobility is poor. She once told me "you let me know if you smell any bad smells in my house!" meaning from the house or her!

Like I said I know I'm lucky but I still think that there is everyone is entitled to say what they find unnacceptable in their own home and to be honest, I think I would feel the same way.

[SheWolf]

She’s back and let herself in yesterday stinky as ever bearing gifts of chocolates and biscuits, luckily we had just finished diner and she only stayed long enough to eat an ice cream then left refusing a lift home leaving the usual stench trail. She must be very lonely but that’s the price you pay for smelling like a medieval peasant. ...I know I said I would not let her in my car again, but for Christ sake she is my mother and its a very hard situation to deal with.

Tony, it sounds like your mother is almost trying to bribe you, by bringing those gifts. However, interestingly you say "she let herself in".... err, does that mean she has a key, or are you simply in the habit of leaving the door unlocked? Either way, if you want to take back control of your home environment, you need to either take the key off her or start locking the door as a matter of habit, so that she CAN'T just let herself in any time she feels like it.

I think your mother is lucky that you and your wife continue to support her in her home by cleaning/gardening etc and just because she is in the habit of having the free run of your home that does not mean she is entitled to continue in that way. As for giving her a lift home - you were caught between a rock and a hard place.

I don't agree with Parsifal's comments implying that you are risking a valuable relationship due to placing too much importance on hygiene issues. You are doing what you can to support your mother, while also trying to set boundaries and enjoy a fresh and pleasant atmosphere in your own home, which seems perfectly reasonable to me. It's your mother who is choosing to neglect her personal hygiene, despite repeated requests from you, so it is your mother who is putting her relationship wiith you in jeopardy, not the other way around. She walks extensively every day, so it's not the case that she can't manage to wash/bathe, it's more the case that she WON'T do it, so if she alienates people in the process that is down to her. It's a very tricky balancing act, trying to support your mother and also have some quality of life for yourself and your wife. Good luck Tony.

[Parsifal]

Can I make it clear, and I believe that it was clear from my post, that I was talking about the issues of bathing and odours which have been raised here in general and that my post did not relate to an individual poster, I also believe it was clear that my post related to situations where there were no serious health concerns. More than one member has expressed concerns about bathing and others have contributed their views, sometimes strongly advocating actions some of which I personally do not, from the perspective having had to deal with these issues myself, including smells with which I suspect some people would have difficulty coping, and also from a wider perspective, endorse, believing that relationships are more important than sensibilities and that trying to understand the cause of a problem yields the best results.

There are often many ways of viewing a problem, all have equal validity and some people, and this includes me, find it useful to see the problem from a number of angles, I have simply given an alternative view.

[SheWolf]

Parsifal,

Of course you are right; all views have validity and there are many different perspectives of viewing a problem.

There are definitely health risks associated with poor hygiene. My father's hygiene standards have dropped dramatically over the past year... he rarely has a bath and lately seems to have stopped washing. On top of that I don't believe he even bothers to wash his hands after using the toilet these days. Over the last two weeks he has been in hospital with a chest infection and a urinary tract infection. He's 82 and has never had a urinary infection before, so to me it seems more than just pure coincidence that at a point when his personal hygiene levels have dropped to almost zero he ended up with a urine infection.

When I became aware that Dad had stopped washing I persuaded him that it was time to have a shower installed. We had the bath taken out and replaced with a large walk in shower cubicle, complete with seat and grab rail. Unfortunately, just at the point when the job was finished, Dad fell ill and was admitted to hospital. However, they are saying he may be discharged quite soon and when he comes home I will be pushing him to shower - maybe every week or two, for his own sake as much as anything else. I've learned that in dealing with elderly, stubborn parents there are a lot of compromises involved and I try not to push my own preferred standard of hygiene on my parents, but at the same time if they had their way they'd never wash/bathe/shower so I really have to take the initiative here.

[Tony Malpaso]

She's back and let herself in yesterday (we forgot to lock the door). It was raining and I was in the kitchen about to serve diner, she came marching past me and the food in pans on the hob heading for the sink where she shook her umbrella over the colander I was about to use. I explained what she had done and she apologised but carried on into the lounge and made herself comfy on the sofa. I explained firmly that she had not taken on board what I had been telling her over the past months and years, and that we were about to eat and we did not want her sitting there smelling. She took the hint and got up to leave saying she wished she hadn't come. I offered her a lift home but she refused saying she did not want to go home and sit, she wanted to go for a walk and that's why she had come here. She left in a huff leaving the crossword magazine she had bought my wife and throwing a £20 note on the floor after I refused to take it. It was payment for the food and other cleaning items bought for her earlier in the week.

She came again today at the same time, just as I was about to serve diner. This time the door was locked and I could see her through leaf patterned glass waiting and listening. She turned and walked away, but I had to speak to her especially after yesterday's episode, so I opened the door and said we were about to eat diner. I didn't say she couldn't come in but again she took the hint and wondered off looking all forlorn. All she has to do is have a bath and ware clean clothes, but she would rather suffer and makes us suffer with her.